Warm start issues - '94 60 HP - with videos

[IDFISHER]

Hello everyone, this boating season I've begun having warm start/run issues. This happens whether I've had the motor off for 5 minutes or 60 minutes. I've owned the boat for 3 years and the previous two years I haven't had this issue.


- motor will crank and crank but not fire up until fast idle and/or choke are applied. (see video)
-Once the motor fires up and fast idle lever is fully up it takes the motor 20-30 seconds for RPMs to climb to full speed (see video)
- once the RPMs are fully up, i can lower the fast idle lever and put it in gear and take off.
- Runs great at WOT, i don't have a tachometer, but top speed is about 30 MPH on my 16 ft. Starcraft SS
- checked compression (low quality gauge) and from top to bottom i got 95, 92, 98 PSI.
- checked spark and got strong spark up to and over 7/16". I removed the plugs, and I couldn't see any major issues with their appearance, but i'm not an expert. (see spark plug video for plug condition)
- motor fires and runs great in the driveway (see video)
- always used Non-Ethanol Fuel and Mixed it 50:1 with J/E XD-50 oil. Disabled VRO


VIDEO OF WARM START PROCEDURE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eOLYbY-U14
VIDEO OF SPARK PLUG CONDITION - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvm-BzQQ9qk
VIDEO OF DRIVEWAY IDLE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRX2XGv5PAA

I appreciate any suggestions you may have. Thank you!

 

[flyingscott]

You need to recheck your compression that is to low.

 

[Snowfish]

Clean the carbs.
And I mean really clean them.
Pick up some carb kits. Clean every little frog hair sized jet.
You'll be amazed at the difference.
On warm start, you shouldn't have to prime or use fuel enrichment.
Those carb stacks are easy to get too.
Clean them up. You'll be glad you did.

 

[racerone]

Compression numbers are an issue.-----Is fuel pump clicking in your one video ?----It appears that the hose for the tell tale comes of the side of the block.----But there was a service bulletin that came out in 1994 to move that to the top of the block..----There are other cooling system mods that possibly have not been done.------So retest the compression with a good gauge or pull cylinder head off.-----I think there are some issues with this motor !!

 

[IDFISHER]

What kind of Compression should I be looking for on this motor? What's the minimum acceptable PSI?

Yes, I do believe that is the fuel pump clicking, it's been doing that ever since I've owned it. Is that a problem?

Is relocating the tell tale a DIY project? Are there instructions anywhere?

 

[oldboat1]

Too much cranking. Check the health of your battery (have it load tested) -- motor may not be spinning fast enough. Sandpaper all connections in the starter circuit, beginning with the main battery cables -- bright and shiny.

 

[flyingscott]

What kind of Compression should I be looking for on this motor? What's the minimum acceptable PSI?

Yes, I do believe that is the fuel pump clicking, it's been doing that ever since I've owned it. Is that a problem?

Is relocating the tell tale a DIY project? Are there instructions anywhere?

I would like to see at least 110 psi and above. Once you start getting around 100 or below you will have issues.

 

[IDFISHER]

I would like to see at least 110 psi and above. Once you start getting around 100 or below you will have issues.

New, high quality compression gauge is on order and will be delivered by the weekend. I'll retest compression numbers and report back. Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far.

 

[IDFISHER]

I rechecked compression with a new high quality gauge and got the same results. 98/95/92 psi. I tried a seafoam decarb but that just resulted in a lot of smoke and the same compression. What should my next move be?

 

[racerone]

Pull the cylinder head off now.---Head gaskets are cheap.

 

[IDFISHER]

Pull the cylinder head off now.---Head gaskets are cheap.

Ok, so I pulled the head off for an inspection and I didn't notice anything catastrophic. There is some rust around each cylinder. Below are a couple short videos I took to show the condition of everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8x74IThgwo - head removal and inspection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC7B7XVIH6Y - gasket removal and inspection


Could the rust be causing the slight decrease in compression in each cylinder (98/95/92) Could it just be that it's an older motor and starting to wear out?

The old gasket didn't have any sealant on it and came off very easily. Are these supposed to be installed dry or should I put a sealant on the new gasket?

While i have the head off, should I manually clean the carbon off the top of each piston?

Back to my original issue....needing extra fuel for warm starts. What next? Carb cleaning?

Thanks to all for your help so far, I'll keep chipping away at this.

 

[TuffTurkey]

Ok, so I pulled the head off for an inspection and I didn't notice anything catastrophic. There is some rust around each cylinder. Below are a couple short videos I took to show the condition of everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8x74IThgwo - head removal and inspection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC7B7XVIH6Y - gasket removal and inspection


Could the rust be causing the slight decrease in compression in each cylinder (98/95/92) Could it just be that it's an older motor and starting to wear out?

The old gasket didn't have any sealant on it and came off very easily. Are these supposed to be installed dry or should I put a sealant on the new gasket?

While i have the head off, should I manually clean the carbon off the top of each piston?

Back to my original issue....needing extra fuel for warm starts. What next? Carb cleaning?

Thanks to all for your help so far, I'll keep chipping away at this.

Are your plugs fouled after use? Poor idle or no idle after warm? What are the condition of your ignition coils? cracks? Done a reading on a multimeter? ( I have a 90 VRO 88) Changed the ignition coils and problem solved with idling and warm starts. Ignition coils got too hot, so in turn the spark weakened causing poor starts and idling or no idling. I wouldn't be a bad idea to check that too.

 

[oldboat1]

There seems to be some scuffing in the cylinders, but thinking that might not be the problem. I can't tell if there is rust around the face of the cylinders, or residue from sealant. You might clean up the stuff, and the same for the gasket. If the gasket is still in good shape, you might resuse it for some experimenting: Resurface the head cover by rotating the mating surface on a piece of wet/dry sandpaper on glass or something equally hard -- figure eight pattern. Get an equal shine all around. Then torque the cover to spec using a circular pattern beginning at the center -- tighten in a couple of passes. Then fire it up and let it warm up a bit. Torque the bolts again after it cools down, then try another compression test and see if there is some improvement.

This doesn't address the technical bulletin regarding the tell tale and t.stat, but may get some improvement. Monitor temperature at the top of the head. If 130-140F, you may be good to go for now. Get a big plastic trash can for driveway testing, and fill it up. Idle or fast idle only.

 

[IDFISHER]

*UPDATE* - I cleaned mating surface, replaced head gasket, re-torqued head bolts to 20 ft/lbs in the proper sequence in 3 stages 10/15/20 ft lbs, fired up the motor and i'm getting water leaking out of the gasket all over. Where did i go wrong? Does the motor need to heat up in order for the sealant on the head gasket to create a seal? I've got a sinking feeling in my stomach that I screwed it up worse than it already was.

 

[oldboat1]

Get a new head gasket.

 

[IDFISHER]

Get a new head gasket.

The one I used was brand new.

 

[oldboat1]

Some require sealant, some not -- normally indicated on the face of the gasket. 20 ft. lbs would be correct. I use OMC gasket sealant for most gaskets, and let it dry before running. Not much that can go wrong if your torque wrench is accurate. It is important to retorque after the motor heats up, but sounds like you didn't get up to that yet.

Check the head cover on the flat surface to see if the warping is more serious.

 

[IDFISHER]

Thank you. This gasket said nothing about adding sealant or not. I'll verify flatness and if flat add sealant. Can I reuse my new gasket or is it shot now that it's been torqued once?

 

[oldboat1]

I would clean it up all mating surfaces and reuse the gasket. If after drying there is leakage, I would see if it can be stopped by carefully tightening the bolt or bolts down a bit more. With the leakage you saw, I would suspect the torque wrench -- maybe borrow another.

 

[IDFISHER]

I would clean it up all mating surfaces and reuse the gasket. If after drying there is leakage, I would see if it can be stopped by carefully tightening the bolt or bolts down a bit more. With the leakage you saw, I would suspect the torque wrench -- maybe borrow another.

Thank you so much for your help. I actually just got done out there and I think I'm in the clear. I went out and loosened every bolt slightly. Redid my torque sequence 10/15/20 ft/lbs and started the motor. Was still getting some leakage but it seemed to be slowing down as the motor warmed up so I thought things were expanding and sealing up. After about 10 minutes there was till some leaking so i bumped the wrench up another 2 lbs and re-tightened everything as the motor was running. That seemed to do the trick. After another 10 minutes of running I couldn't see any leaks. I retested my compression and I'm still in the mid 90s across the board.