water in bilge.

[orion208]

I have a 20ft cuddy with a volvo-penta 4.3 1991.I have never left the boat in the water but away this past week had no choice,what I found was about 50 gallons of water in the bilge each morning would pump out then same thing next day,drain plug is fine,I can hear the water entering the bilge but cant locate where it it coming in.Would a crack in the upper bellows cause that much water to enter?Ant thoughts welcome.Thanks.

 

[tommays]

Re: water in bilge.

i hate to say it but the only sure way is going to be with looking with a flashlite <br /><br />there are to many ways water can get in if you can here it you should be able to narrow it down so someone can give you the best way to fix that area<br /><br />tommays

 

[Don S]

Re: water in bilge.

You go out on your boat and don't have a float switch for your bilge pump.......That's scarry. And then to be able to hear a leak and walk away <br /><br />Like Tom says, if you can't find where the leak is coming in at, you sure can't fix it. Flashlights, mirrors, even being able to feel the colder water will tell you where it's coming in from.

 

[bomar76]

Re: water in bilge.

Originally posted by Don S:<br /> You go out on your boat and don't have a float switch for your bilge pump.......That's scarry. And then to be able to hear a leak and walk away

I am with you all the way on this....<br /><br />Un freaking beliveable. <br /><br />Next post from OP will be about how boat sunk and what to do about it.....

 

[Elk Chaser]

Re: water in bilge.

Come on guys, give the guy a break, he is just asking for help. He does not deserve to be condemned (flamed) by those possibly more in the know.........<br /><br />Yes, any bellows with a crack or hole can leak that much water in that amount of time easily. If you can not locate the leaks then you really need to take the boat out of the water and inspect same for any problems and correct them before you leave that boat in the water unattended. I have read here on this board that some people (with the boat on the trailer) will actually run water into the bilge until it leaks outside the boat to locate the leak.<br /><br />You would not be well advised to leave your boat for any extended period of time even if you had a float on your bilge pump. Do not trust your float let alone the battery with a leak of that nature. Way too much water.

 

[orion208]

Re: water in bilge.

Thanks for the help.(those who were willing to help).I would never "walk away" and leave my boat when I could hear water coming in if the boat were docked at any more than the 2.5 feet at the dock with the stern drive trimmed right up.Also the bilge pump I have did a fine job of clearing the bilge.I was not going to go without fishing after driving 4 hours to the lake because of a small leak(that could be controlled)at no time was safety an issue here,the only time I noticed a lot of water in the bilge was when it was left overnight after 4 hours of fishing on the lake I only drained maybe a quart,it seemed worse (the leak)when the boat was docked with motor trimmed up.Anyway it it now on the trailer and I have discovered 2 separate cracks underside top (large) billows which is why I never noticed it before because with the motor trimmed up the cracks are (streched) and trimmed down the cracks are closed more so.But I do believe that the bellows cracks are the source of the leakage and I shall get that repaired.If any one has had this done and can give me a "rough" estimate in dollars that would be appreciated.Thanks.

 

[Don S]

Re: water in bilge.

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say.<br />If you get in a boat, on the water, you need to have an automatic bilge pump of some kind. You never know when a hose breaks and the engine raw water pump just starts filling the boat full of water, or something else breaks.<br />Not only can't you hear it, but you can't see it either because the engine hatch is closed. At least an automatic bilge pump will try to keep up till you notice it.<br />And 50 gallons of water is a lot of water in the back of a boat. That would be over the starter and possibly the alternator on some boats. So do yourself a favor and put in some kind of automatic bilge pump. Who knows, you may even forget to put in the bilge plug someday. And if tied to the dock, you will eventually hear the pump output hitting the water.<br />Now, as far as you bellows goes. In order for the water to get into the bilge it has to go through the intermediat bearings in the bellhousing. That means the grease has washed out of the bearings and they are rusting as we speak. The only way to replace the bearings is to remove the bellhousing from the engine and pull the shaft from the bellhousing and replace the bearings and reinstall the bellhousing. Yes, you have to get the engine out to do this. You also need to replace the u-joints that are now full of rusty water. If you check, you will also find the drive full of water also....You guessed it, more rusty bearings and gears. <br />Assuming the drive is ok, and all you need is to reseal the input shaft on upper gear box because the seal surface is exposed to water an is rusting and damaging the seal and hopefully the water mixed with the drive oil and didn't do any damage to the gears or internal bearings the job should only be around $3000 to $5000 if done by a certified Volvo dealer. I know this, cause I am one.

 

[orion208]

Re: water in bilge.

Don,I do appreciate your expertise and knowledge,what I cant understand is how you can determine I am in to a 5-6 thousand dollar repair for what I can see is only a cracked upper bellows.I do not leave the boat in the water I have gotten all the water drained,from what I can see there is no rust,I greased the hell out of the bearing until I can get the boat in to have the bellows replaced.I also took the boat to the local lake last night for a run I had it up to 50 mph.(gps) and it ran perfect.I know I am fairly new to sterndrives but I think you may be overeacting to the amount of damage I have,unless I am missing something here.Anyone else care to jump in.Thanks

 

[tommays]

Re: water in bilge.

i would agree with don the drive shaft bellows is the worst one to leak it submerges the u-joints and all the driveline parts that are not ment to come in contact with water it is a 1991 boat and many of these parts have most likely been geting wet for a long time it was just not noticed until it reached the flood stage<br /><br />it is the big downside to any brand of i/o drive the repiar costs from what looks like one part turn into pandoras box when you take apart the drive and find the other 7 parts that one bad part damaged<br /><br />on the plus side many people on this site do the jobs them selfs it really depends on your mech skills and weather you willing to put in the time to do the repiar<br /> it will take you much longer than someone who does it every day but if your wiling it can be done<br /><br />tommays

 

[duffler2000]

Re: water in bilge.

thanks starbaby for putting this post up and for those who have responded. my boat leaks similar to whats being said here and this gives me a good starting point once the seasons over with. let me know what you come up with when you get er fixed.

 

[orion208]

Re: water in bilge.

Thanks Tom,the only time this boat was left in freshwater was only for 1 week in 10 years,other than that whenever I have had the boat out on the lake for a day here and there there has been very little (a cup maybe) water coming from the bilge so I guess what I am saying is that maybe there is not the amount of damage that Don had suggested (5-6 thousand dollars) seems like quite a bit.Do you think that now the boat is dry docked and drained completely that if I pack the grease in through the crack in the bellows plus load up the nipples that will save it from rusting parts out until I can book it in the shop?Thanks

 

[orion208]

Re: water in bilge.

To Duffler.The way I noticed the crack in the bellows was I trimmed the motor right up (so the bellows was streched to it's furthest point look under and all around the bellows upper and lower feel the grooves with your finger and see if you find any holes or cracks.

 

[Don S]

Re: water in bilge.

I said 3 to 5 thousand, you got the 5 to 6. But yes mine was a bit on the high side too.<br />I did a little closer estimate and it looks closer to 2500 to 3000.<br />It's just that a lot of expensive parts have gone bad due to lack of maintenance for a lot of years. If you do the work your self, you will save some money. But it's going to take a lot of work as tommays said.<br />Then, with all these problems due to lack of maintenance, don't you think during the process other things are going to be found also. Perhaps the impeller, tuneups, oil changes, pulleys, belts, float switches, exhaust manifolds and risers, you name it.<br />And to think that all of this because of a water leak.

 

[orion208]

Re: water in bilge.

Thanks Don.I have actually owned the boat for 3 years and it has had regular maintentance,tune-ups oil changes winterizing etc.It has not been leaking that long and has never stayed in the water overnight exept for the past week so now that I have it on the trailer maybe packing it with grease will slow down any rusting and limit my damages.I appreciate your advice and knowledge.Thanks

 

[tylerin]

Re: water in bilge.

web page This was in May you've known your situation for awhile now

 

[Elk Chaser]

Re: water in bilge.

I had all my bellows and hoses replaced, new upper drive seal, new u-joint and a new gimbal bearing on an alpha 1 and it cost 850 bucks at a local boat repair shop. This was just this past spring on a boat I recently sold. <br /><br />The oil seal did not leak into the drive and the gimbal bearing did not leak but was frozen in place for I do not know how long. I would have done this all myself but it would have cost me 300 for the required tools (alignment tool etc.) plus another 400 or more for the materials.<br /><br />Does the volvo actually cost that much more to do the same thing. If so I am sure glad I did not end up buying one.<br /><br />I would not pack that bellow with grease, you should just get her fixed as soon as possible. Check to see if there is any water in the drive, that will tell you if the oil seal is leaking by. The U-joint will need to replaced no matter how much exposure it has had to water. The oil seal should be replaced if it's good or bad because it was exposed to water as well. Also make sure to replace all hoses and bellows while it's down for repairs. Not real familiar with the volvo but if the main bellows is cracked the shift bellow could be also and that will leak water into the bilge much easier. I have a Bravo 1 with a leak in the shift bellows right now.

 

[bomar76]

Re: water in bilge.

Originally posted by tylerin:<br /> web page This was in May you've known your situation for awhile now

Good find.<br />Any vestige of sympathy I had has evaporated.<br />Ignoring the problem and advice for 4 months didn't seem to fix it.

 

[Don S]

Re: water in bilge.

Elk Chaser<br />It's not the fact that the parts cost more, it's the amount of time and the amount of parts needed, due to how long the problem has been going on.<br />The Volvo's do not have gimbal bearings. They have bearings in the bellhousing for the intermediate shaft, the engine must be removed to get the bellhousing off for repairs. There are seals that keeps water out of the intermediate bearings, but with things getting rusty it tends to eat the seals up, then you get water into those bearings. Enough in fact that it washes the grease out of the way and rusts the front bearing which in turn takes out the front seal. Now you have water getting into the bellhousing and into the boat. This also gets water into the starter and flexplate (More expensive rust). At the other end, there is the ujoints full of water and rusting, rust taking out the front seal in the drive and allowing the gear lube out and water in.......now you start adding up the cost. Especially if the drive is damaged due to water for a long period of time. The ujoint bellows itself is only about 60 bucks and takes less than an hour to change. I replace mine yearly, when lube the u-joints. Mercruisers do have stronger bellows, but they do cost more and are a lot harder and takes longer to change.<br /><br />And to Star Baby, NO packing grease in the bellows will do nothing, everything inside the bellows is already dead. The fact that you have had water in there since May or even before that means my estimate would go back up. Possibly more than 3 to 5 if the drive is full of water also.<br />And like bomar76 stated Ingnoring the problem and advice for 4 months didn't seem to fix it, but it did make it a lot worse.

 

[orrismic]

Re: water in bilge.

I almost sunk my boat with torn u-joint bellows. Same thing. Left over night in the water the weekend I bought the boat put it on the trailor the next day water up to the carpet! Had all the bellows replace, gimble bearing, U-joints, and shift cable while they were in there and the cost was $1,100. Not cheap but, no more worries.

 

[Don S]

Re: water in bilge.

Orrismic, do you have an OMC, Mercruiser, or what?<br />One thing you need to understand, is the Volvo is different from a Merc or OMC. If a bellows goes bad on a Merc or OMC, there is no seal to prevent water from getting to the gimbal bearing and going right on through to the engine compartment. But on the older Volvos, you had seals to keep water out of the intermediate bearing (doesn't have gimbal bearing). But over time the rust would take out the seals, the bearings, and then enter the engine compartment.<br />Comparing Merc or OMC repair prices doesn't mean anything, it's comparing apples to oranges.