water ingestion

[magicbandit]

I am still having problems with my 1990 formula with volvo penta 454. I have been through hell and back trying to fix this thing. Here are the things I have done respectfully.<br />1. Pressure tested the manifolds and risers with 30 psi of air. Both sides held at 30 Psi overnight<br />2. Pressure tested the oil cooler(tested fine)<br />3. Replaced intake manifold gasket<br />4. replaced both head gaskets<br />5. inspected block and heads for cracks(none visible)<br />6. inspected cylininder walls for cracks(look perfect)<br />7. checked compression(between 130-136 on all cylinders)<br /><br />All of my testing has been done on the trailer.<br />The engine temp only goes up to 150 degrees f. The oil will not clear up. light brown color very cloudy. kinda like a milkshake. the longer i run it the lighter in color it gets. i have changed the oil several times and i see NO improvement.<br /><br />Can the engine ingest water runnining it on the trailer. I have not tested the static line because everything is frozen around here but should it matter when the boat is out of the water???<br />The boat has thru hull exhaust and from the outlet on the riser to the thru hull fittings there is a real nice downward slope on the exhaust pipe.<br />At this point I am very fustrated. with this engine. any opinions and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.<br />MIke

 

[hydrabass]

Re: water ingestion

has this proplem just started or did you buy the boat with this problem . this could be engine set up ?

 

[magicbandit]

Re: water ingestion

bought it this way. the motor is original. the only after market this thing has is intake manifold and carb. broker screwed me on this one

 

[Bondo]

Re: water ingestion

Hey Mike,<br />Without being able to run the engine under load is a real handicap with what you're trying to do......<br />Is the motor running OK on the hose ??? Is the Color of the oil your Only hint of trouble ??? Are you Gaining Oil, ei; is the level rising on the stick ?????? How Much water do you Think is entering the base ??????? The block Rarely cracks down in the webs, below the cam.. And you've Had the rest of the motor apart..... Was the lifter valley Inspected Closely ?? Is the water Flowing propperly ???<br />The static line Only applies IN the water....<br />I'll skip down the pages to see if you've posted any history.....<br />I'm thinking, That without being able to build any Heat in that motor, Under Load, You Maybe wasting your time,+ oil....<br />It might be time to put it to bed, Till the water Softens a little......<br /><br />Got All the way Up to 6* today......

 

[magicbandit]

Re: water ingestion

Bondo, thanks for the reply. i will have to run it one more time to check if the level is coming up. what boggles my mind is that when running it on the trailer i can get it to steam out the top of the valve covers. i would run it for 1 hr and themm change the oil.i did this 3 times today. wouldn't you think the oil would at least improve alittle after each change? it seems that the longer i run it the worse it looks. the valleys were inspected by a marine mechanic. the water is flowing properly according to the mechanic.<br /><br />i had originally took the boat in to get a NEW reman engine but when he took it apart he said he couldn't find anything wrong. so he recomended to put it back together with new gaskets. you can imagine i was pretty dissapointed today when the prob did not go away<br /><br />Do you think i can eliminate the exhaust as a potential problem? I did pressure test them with air at 30 psi. no leaks. Could they be leaking when they heat up. It seems thats 30 psi would find any problems at room temp. What do you think?????<br /><br />I would hate to put a new engine in to fine out the prob was from the exhaust. Can the water get sucked in through the exhaust while it is running??( on the trailer)<br /><br />The engine runs absolutely beautiful!!!<br />Its a big mystery to me<br /><br />Thanks again<br /><br />Mike

 

[hydrabass]

Re: water ingestion

you could possibly suck water in thru the exhaust if the risers are below the water line .with the boat sitting level in the water do a riser height check just to see where the water line is to the top of the risers . manufactures would probable say 13" is the minimum from the top of the risers to the water line but i would call to make sure .

 

[Bondo]

Re: water ingestion

Hydrabass,<br />It's winter in wisconsin... He's on the Hose... <br />Jazzy,<br />NO, I can't believe the Exhaust is the answer..... your Not hydro-locking, It's water in the base..... If you have a leak, 30psi will Deffinetly find it.... When it's cold out, steam will show at very low temps.... you Need to Build Allot of Heat, By Loading the engine at High RPMs.... In other words, you've Got to wait for Soft water to Run the boat for an hour or two, At Full Load.... Reving the Engine IS NOT Loading the engine...!!!!!<br />Bypassing the water around the oil cooler will Help warm the oil,+ IF it's leaking, you'll see it dripping after you run it.... BUT, On the Hose, you're NOT going to build enough heat to do anything....<br />You've either got to Wait for the spring thaw, Or find a Dyno.... You Can't Build Heat, Without a Load......

 

[flashback]

Re: water ingestion

Jazzy, in answer to your question if water could get sucked in while on the hose, the answer is yes if the cam is too radical, (overlap), the only thing is, I believe the engine would hydro-loc if this were happening but I am not sure. you mentioned after market intake and carb, it may also have an aftermarket cam... good luck......

 

[kdmiller8251]

Re: water ingestion

I am with Flashback, I dont think it would really be possible to suck water in and get it into the oil it would either lock or be burned off I believe.... I think you need to get it out on the water in the spring and heat it up real good.....

 

[magicbandit]

Re: water ingestion

Thanks to all for your responses!!!!<br />I believe the cam is original in this engine. when the new head gasket was put in the mechanic told me the head had never been off before. But maybe he's just saying that!! I am led to believe there is a crack somewhere internally on this engine. Probably time for a remanufactured. <br />Big bucks time

 

[sea wolf]

Re: water ingestion

have u had the head pressure tested? how about checked for warpage? i once pulled the head on mine to replace the head gasket & took it to a machine shop to have it checked out. they found slight warpage which they were able to plane. worth a shot.

 

[magicbandit]

Re: water ingestion

thanks seawolf.<br />No on pressure testing the heads. Yes the mechanic checked the surfaces on both and they were perfect.

 

[Blue Thunder]

Re: water ingestion

Great advise your getting Jazzy. Sounds like you have probably fixed the problem, now you just need to get rid of the milkshake. What you have is emulsifyed oil coating and laying inside your engine. You need to "cut" this emulsification with some sort of solvent. I have used kerosine with good results. What you need to do is remove whatever oil is in engine now. Fill engine with a couple gallons of kerosine. Put 1/2 down each valve cover. Remove distributor and dump some kerosine in lifter valley too. With distributor removed, use a priming tool to turn the oil pump over with drill. Autozone loans these for free. Do this for 5 mins or so. Hook boat up to tow vehicle and vigorously shake boat. You could also stand next to boat and shake it on trailer. Next remove kerosine, preferrably through drainplug at bottom of oil pan. Refill engine with oil and prime oil pump again with drill. Reinstall sistributor. Change filters btw through all this. Start engine and making sure oil pressure is good. Let run till up to temp again. Remove oil and filter one last time and refill with fresh. Then wait for spring and after first good run, change oil again. <br /><br />Good luck,<br /><br />BT

 

[Boatist]

Re: water ingestion

Jazzy<br />Sounds to me like you still have a problem or you would see improvement when you changed the oil.<br />Can you block your water hose to engine and water output hoses to exhaust manifolds and use air and pressure test the block and head to 10lb???<br /><br />When you pulled all the plugs did they all look the same or was one rusty or very clean, usually the back one or lowest one.<br /><br />Sound a lot like a Exhaust manifold but I know you have tested. This will usually cause lowest plug to be very clean or rusty. Also cylinder and since you have had heads off you should have seen that.<br />Good luck and I hope you will report the final fix.

 

[llerrad]

Re: water ingestion

Milkshake oil sure is a sign of water in the block and there will be a rise on the dip stick or froth, is there anyway to isolate the coolant (water) to run through the engine only without using the rest of the system, more like an automotive closed system. Heads when off should be crack checked, magnaflux. Any sign of steam clean on pistons or plugs to show water enty. Engine block could be cracked due to bad winter storage, buy from broker no way to know.

 

[johnkc]

Re: water ingestion

jazzy, to pressure test the engine only,not the manifolds etc.remove the thermostat hsg, make a plate to fit the thermostat opening on the intake .drill and tap a hole to put a fitting with a gauge in so you can air it up from here.then on the circulation pump get a rubber pipe cap from plumbing supply and block it off.then add pressure ,10-15 the circ. pump can't handle much more than 15 psi ,good luck.

 

[loadnet]

Re: water ingestion

What was the conclusion on this milky oil situation? anyone know?<br /><br />Because if the heads were removed and re-installed without doing a magnaflex and pressure test at the local machine shop I personaly would have the mechanic rip it down for free and do the job right... the SECOND time around.<br /><br />Makes no brains to me for a mechanic to remove heads suspect of a crack and not have them checked (the right way) at the machine shop.<br /><br />Looking at em with magnfying glass is just whoopy doo, but the machine shop results, tells the real story.<br /><br />He got your money but you ended up with the same problem.<br /><br />If you haven't concluded this situation already..I'd bring it on over to him and tell him to fix it right, and don't give em another penny.<br /><br />amazing.

 

[yoced]

Re: water ingestion

some questions i have about this -<br /><br />I am wondering how were the riser and manifold tested? Pressure into the water jacket or exhaust? Pressure held onto at the rear of riser how?<br /><br />I also wonder if the hose set up could be an issue. For instance, if the hose runs full pressure after the engine is shut off (unlike running the boat in real life), is it possible for the water to be backing up? Are there flappers which would normally require exhaust pressure to stay open?<br /><br />Just some thoughts to keep the mind from numbing..