waxed poly resin

[produceguy]

Alright guys, I dont want this to turn into a pissing match on epoxy or poly.
I have been using poly waxed resin and I noticed that without adding hardner it stays tacky.Then with the last layup I ad the hardner and it will cure thru and thru. I know theirs a resin made for this but the waxed resin seems to do this also.
I did this method on my side panels.
I'm thinking of trying to use this method on my deck.
Anyone try this before?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: waxed poly resin

Uhmmm, You have to use the hardener with all the resin you mix. Doesn't matter if it has wax in it or not. If you applied resin only to your wood and then applied another batch of resin with hardener over the top of the resin only...I fear you'll be having some delamination issues in the near future. ALL polyester resin MUST have the MEKP hardener mixed in with it as well as be applied with CSM or it's pretty much worthless. The issue with Waxed Resin is that once it cures, you must sand the surface and wipe it down with solvent in order for the next layer of resin and mat to adhere properly. That's NOT just my opinion... It's standard installation procedures that's posted on any forum you can find. I don't think you'll find anyone that will disagree with those statements.

 

[produceguy]

Re: waxed poly resin

Thanks Wog. Just curious. The wax is what causes the resin to cure, is that right?
My thinking was that as long as the last layer had hardener that it would cause the wax to seal it and then all resin trapped would
This method would be a lot easier when working with waxed poly just not having to worry about the resin hardening before the next layup.
Thanks for the reply.
I'll stick with the mf instructions.

 

[produceguy]

Re: waxed poly resin

Sorry for not being clear but yes it will have 3 layers of csm.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: waxed poly resin

OK, let me back up a bit. Have you been adding the Hardener to ALL of the mixes you've been doing? Like so many drops of the hardener per so man oz's of resin? If you've done that then YES you can then put another layer of resin on top of it with NO PROBLEMS and then add Wax to the Last layer. to make it Non Tacky. I think I may have misinterpreted your first post. If that's what you did, then you won't have any problems with de-lamination. Everything should be hunky dory!!!

Nope wax does not make the resin cure. MEKP makes the resin harden and cure. It's a chemical thing. What resin are you using and why are you using waxed resin instead of a standard laminating resin, if I might ask? Bottom line is you must put Hardener (MEKP) in with all or your Resin mixes, but You only have to put wax in the final layer IF YOU WANT TO. IT's not required.111

Resin with no wax will eventually become non tacky over time. If you cover it with plastic it will speed up the process since it does not like air exposure. Some paint will do the same. PVA will do it too! (Poly vinyl alcohol)

Hey, I AM a Dumb Okie and it takes me a while to figure out and understand what you're talking about sometimes!!!!:facepalm:

 

[produceguy]

Re: waxed poly resin

I'm using bonds resin that is sold a lowes just because of convenient issues,
Without the hardener the wax will not rise and harden,kind of like the laminating resin it stays tacky. If the last layer has hardener the wax will harden and seal it and therefor the resin will cure. Is that not correct?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: waxed poly resin

With that resin you must ALWAYS add the hardener. With ANY kind of Polyester resin you must ALWAYS add the hardener. That's what makes it Heat up and do the chemical magic and CURE!!!! Got nothing to do with the wax. Laminating Resin has NO WAX and it cures once the Hardener (MEKP) is added. Soooo If I WAS correct and you applied resin with NO HARDENER and then Came back and applied more Resin with Hardener, what you have basically is Resin with maybe 1/2 or less the amount of hardener in it and it's not very well mixed sooooo, it's prolly gunna de-laminate and not adhere worth beans. The first coat of resin will stay mushy for ever and cause the hardened resin on top to float around. Not a good scenario.

That Resin is almost twice as expensive as ordering it online. You do realize that right??? How much are you paying per gallon? How much do you think you're gunna need? What Glass are you using?

 

[produceguy]

Re: waxed poly resin

Alright Wog, Thanks buddy, lol, sorry if I got under your skin a little.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: waxed poly resin

No, No, No, I'm sorry If I'm coming off that way. Dag nab it. I'm not wanting to do that!!!!! I want you to have the BEST restoration you can possibly have for the least amount of money and effort. The resin at the Big Box stores is really not that good but I do realize it's convenient. It's ok for some stuff and quick repairs but not for big jobs. Waxed resin is just not the right stuff for most boat repairs. Lot's of other reasons too. I apologize for making you feel uncomfortable. NOT my intention at all!!! I'm just fearful that if you've applied resin with no hardener you may have issues. Don't want that to occur if we can avoid it. It's so hard with Text to confer what you're really saying. I'll PM you my Personal Contact info and feel free to call me if you want to discuss this further on the phone. It's much easier when we can talk and you can tell I'm not upset!!!! PM On it's way!!!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: waxed poly resin

Hey PG,
I too am a bit confused...
And no, I don't think you got under Woody's skin, I just think he was trying to make a point...
The real question is this...
Did you add hardener to the initial layup of resin...and each and every time you mixed up a batch?
Forget about the wax for now...it is simply added by the resin manufacturer as an aid to curing, but it is not necessary to the curing of resin...Resin will cure over a period of time...BUT ONLY if you added the MEK-p to it...without it, the resin will remain completely and totally UN-cured...Even if you apply a HOT batch over the top of it, the MEK-P will not migrate far enough down into the resin to promote a good cure...
I have had resin cure with very small ratios of catalyst, but it was thoroughly mixed into the resin before application.
And don't worry, you shouldn't be concerned with starting a heated discussion about poly versus epoxy because that is not what your initial inquiry is about...I think...

 

[tpenfield]

Re: waxed poly resin

Alright, I've had enough of this ( well not really ). As stated, it would seem risky, at best, to be using waxed resin for the initial layers of a lay-up and particularly without the catalyst (MEKP).

The odds are pretty good of trapping the surface wax between layers, which will cause delimitation. I'm thinking with only adding the catalyst to the top layer, it may promote some curing in the next lower layer, but that would be all that I would expect it to do.

the wax is really designed for the last layer and it should/will ride on the surface of the layup to isolate the resin from the air. That is what allows the very top surface to harden. Without the wax, the last layer will cure, but the surface of it will remain tacky since it is exposed to oxygen/air, preventing it from curing.

the catalyst does the curing . . . the wax isolates the resin from the air.

If you are doing multiple layers of lay-up, it is best to use unwaxed resin for the lower layers and then the Home Depot/Lowes stuff for the final layer.