Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

[Texasmark]

Personally I don't care what your mind set is. Ethanol in a marine environment has gotten a lot of attention on this site. I have used this companies product to preserve my farm diesel and it has done a stellar job. I had nothing else to do today since it is cold outside and my cows are fed and all, my equipment is fixed, so I came in the house to enjoy the wood stove's warmth and did some surfing.

If the attached thread is not an all out bold faced lie, it contains some interesting information for all of us regardless of our mindset: straight fuel, additive x or y or z etc. and regardless of the reason for using the fuel.....chain saw, weed eater, auto, truck, I/O boat, inboard, 2 or 4 stroke OB.............

Enjoy. It was enlightening for me. www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/STAR BRITE ethanol p3072D2.pdf

Mark

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

Seems plausible. Empirical evidence is needed. Interesting find!

 

[Another retired guy]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

This is not new, it's from Starbrite's promo material.
I am using Startron this year and have put my boat to bed with a full tank (40 gals) of ethanol fuel.
I'll let you know next May if the boat starts and runs!!!
Of course, this won't prove anything as there are many who will say that the fuel would have been fine without any additive

 

[QC]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

Since this is such a hot topic I suggest we all try and use the proper Ethanol designations for the specific "fuel" we are referring to: E10, E85 etc. It can get confusing when some are speaking of one, and some are speaking of another, and all say "Ethanol." I am always skeptical of any fuel additive publications that mention "fuel economy and power" and octane in the same sentence. Yes, there are some relationships between the three, but usually misstated and misunderstood. I kind of feel like they danced in that funky area.

 

[frfly172]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

Have been using startro for several years seems to work great for me in e10 fuel .i usually add to fuel if oat is going to sit for more than three weeks ,on long trips I never add if I am going to refuel right away.

 

[matt167]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

The Chemists make a product to do one thing, and then the marketing department decides to tack on some other uses, and then the sales team has a lot more to go with... Many 'snake oils' have one specific use ( original intended use ) that they do well with, but in some cases, who know what that is.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

The Chemists make a product to do one thing, and then the marketing department decides to tack on some other uses, and then the sales team has a lot more to go with... Many 'snake oils' have one specific use ( original intended use ) that they do well with, but in some cases, who know what that is.

Well said. All additives, regardless of their primary intended purpose, will have some additional, coincidental benefits that provide marketing opportunities. Anyone remember the SNL TV commercial skit?

'SHIMMER- it's a floor polish.'
'No, it's a dessert topping.'
'Floor polish!'
'Dessert topping!'

I use a couple of tried and true products for specific purposes, and only occasionally. Sea Foam to clean the fuel system once in awhile, and Sta-Bil to stabilize the fuel at layup. Never had any issues before, during, between or after application. If you want to spend an extra $10-20. at every fillup, that's your business. My boats, for some strange reason, don't need it.

My .02

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

I'd be curious as to a study of people who have actually had ethanol issues... I'm talking things DIRECTLY caused by ethanol. Yes, it can degrade some old fuel lines and tanks, and there is no product in the world that you can dump in your tank to fix that. And yes, its great at cleaning so if you have a really cruddy fuel system before, ethanol is going to clean that mess up for you. (and plug up the carbs in the process). I wouldn't consider that a direct impact of ethanol, I'd say its a lack of maintenance or poor fuel before...

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

I read that link from Texasmark's post, it's BS. Maybe, maybe the stuff does some good, but it's not an 'enzyme' as claimed. Enzymes are proteins or other large organic molecules which speed up chemical reactions, normally within living cells. There are enzymes in a few select household products such as meat tenderizers (they break down large protein molecules in meat into smaller ones, making the meat easier to chew), and some laundry products which break down large grease molecules into smaller molecules which detergents can dissolve easier. Dispersing water has nothing to do with enzyme action, so their entire premise that they have 'enzymes' in their product is a big fat lie. (here's a wikipedia article on enzymes: Enzyme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ). And granted, sometimes marketing geniuses tend to go a wee bit overboard, but when I see marketing which is so far out of line from the truth I choose not to believe any of it.

 

[catfish58]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

I've been using Starbright for the last 4 years in my boat and my power equipment. In the fall of 2011 I stored my new (1 year old) push mower without Starbright because I had planned to use it one more time before storing it. The following spring it wouldn't crank. My old push mower(11 years old) stored with Starbright started with 4 or 5 pulls of the rope. I use it in everything but the daily drivers now.

 

[Brewman61]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

I usually forget to treat the E10 that powers my: Pressure Washer, Weed Decimater, Lawn Mower, & snow blower.
The 6 gallon supply container I keep around to feed them is typically at least 6 months old before it gets refilled.
Hence, they sit for many months with "old" fuel. Don't recall having any issues starting or running them when it's time.
I end up running marina gas in the boat most of the time- it doens't have any "booze"in it. Or so they tell me.
No issues there either, but even so when I put the boat up for the season, I usually do treat the gas. Except when I forget to.
I must be the luckiest s.o.b. walking the face of the earth, according to the wisdom of the internet I should be having many fuel related issues.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

I'd be curious as to a study of people who have actually had ethanol issues... I'm talking things DIRECTLY caused by ethanol.

I can start that study with my small experience. Every Memorial day my family and I go upstate to a friends cabin to quad and relax and quad.(quadding is like land boating. Lots of fun with a powered vehicle). Every year we have to take the carbs off most of the quads and clean them. They all have gel in the bowls and are clogged up pretty good. The quads they use to hunt with all winter usually seem to be fine. The ones that sit most of the winter are always gunked up. I told him about stabil and he is going to use it this winter and see if it works. I will update in the spring I guess. I would say just from what I have seen that leaving the e-10 untreated does create gel in that harsh enviroment. On Long Island where I live I have never winterized or summerized(snow blower) any of my yard tools and have never had a problem. Our winters aren't half as cold or quite as long as upstate and my garage is under my house and never gets too cold or hot. I have just recently found out about stabil though and will use it from now on to be safe. It can't hurt to run the last tank with an additive before putting it away.

 

[sktn77a]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

Snake oil! Enzymes are proteins that function in an aqueous environment. They denature (lose their 3 dimensional structure) in organic solvents (gasoline, ethanol) and lose their ability to catalyse their intended chemical reaction.

 

[gm280]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

Odd reading this again. In middle Georgia just a day or so ago there was one gas station that received 3000 gallons of gas from thier supplier and after many folks filled up their tanks many cars later started running badly and then completely stopped. Seems that 3000 gallons of ethanal gas mixture had a lot of water in it and cost many drivers to have their cars towed and fuel tanks emptied and cleaned to remove that gas/ethonal/water mixture. The station could be in for much labor cost to repair those vehicles now. You just never know what you are buying! SMH

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

Snake oil! Enzymes are proteins that function in an aqueous environment. They denature (lose their 3 dimensional structure) in organic solvents (gasoline, ethanol) and lose their ability to catalyse their intended chemical reaction.

OK, that makes two votes for "BS" from the resident nerds. I'm bettin' that the stuff is something like isopropyl alcohol.

And gm280, as far as a supplier getting water in the gas - that has nothing to do with ethanol. I've seen "bad gas" from stations way before they started selling E10, especially in the winter I'd always carry a can of fuel dryer just in case. In fact, it's my opinion that the incidence of this has actually decreased since E10 became the norm.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

There is no need for enzyme treatment in E10. However, diesel fuel is another matter, as it can be host to colonies of bacteria.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

... In fact, it's my opinion that the incidence of this has actually decreased since E-10 became the norm.

Winter Fuel Line Freeze-up has become a thing of the past since E-10 became available.

The E-10 actually was a partial save in the watered fuel fiasco.
3000 gallons of E-10 under nominal conditions, can absorb up to 15 gallons of water without issue.

In this case the Absorptive properties of the alcohol were overwhelmed.
Many of the customers that only did a top-off at the station were saved by the E-10 already in their tanks.
Non-Alcohol fuel would have faired worse.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

I've used Star*Tron for 2 years now and swear by the stuff! It cleaned out my 80 gallon tank after just 2 applications. So much so that at first I was changing my 5.7L Mercruiser carb filters after every 2 hours of use. I've also used it to stabilize my 80 gallon tank for each of the last 2 years with no problems.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

My 2 cents worth

I dug into this a good bit last year out of curiosity, Spoke to a friend who is a chemical engineer out at the Ashland Oil refinery at Cattletsburg KY, that's close by me and read several reports and papers on this subject. From what I was able to piece together E 10 has a shelf life of 20 plus years under one condition It can not be exposed to the air. Once left exposed it dose start to break down and depending on the how many gallons determans on how fast.

Once made it is in a sealed storage tank. At a gas station it is in a sealed tank. A car also has a sealed tank. In a boat tank it is exposed to the air through the open vent system. A boat tank isn't sealed. A large capacity tank will take a lot longer than a small tank. The longer it sits the more it breaks down.

I use a stabilizer because I use the small 6 gallon tanks. And while my boat only sits 3 months, that's long enough to start break down, I find it safer just in case I cant use my boat for the year.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Well Folks, Here We Go Again......Ethanol and Marine Propulsion

My 2 cents worth

I dug into this a good bit last year out of curiosity, Spoke to a friend who is a chemical engineer out at the Ashland Oil refinery at Cattletsburg KY, that's close by me and read several reports and papers on this subject. From what I was able to piece together E 10 has a shelf life of 20 plus years under one condition It can not be exposed to the air. Once left exposed it dose start to break down and depending on the how many gallons determans on how fast.

Once made it is in a sealed storage tank. At a gas station it is in a sealed tank. A car also has a sealed tank. In a boat tank it is exposed to the air through the open vent system. A boat tank isn't sealed. A large capacity tank will take a lot longer than a small tank. The longer it sits the more it breaks down.

I use a stabilizer because I use the small 6 gallon tanks. And while my boat only sits 3 months, that's long enough to start break down, I find it safer just in case I cant use my boat for the year.

I've said this before. I've used E10 for more than 20 years and do nothing to store it during the winter and don't winter my motors, so far....zero fuel related issues. This is why people report good success with just about every product out there.