What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

[BassAssassin]

Howdy everyone,<br />i have a cheap walmart special fishfinder right now but i wanted to upgrade. people seem to be all over when it comes to there prefference on finders, so i jusst was wondering what a decent model is and how much does it cost? What are you using right now? what do you think of it?thanks for the imput.

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Lots of models out there but for anyone to help you at all really need to know how you intend to use it. For bass fishing in the delta, waters 10 to 60 feet of fresh water you can use most any unit. Eagle has alot of good units. Really depends on what size screen you want and if you want a speed sensor. Any unit with 1500 peak to peak watts (187.5 Watts RMS) will work very good.<br /><br />If you plan to also fish the deep water of San Francisco Bay and off shore then your need more power and a dual frequency unit.<br /><br />So give some details of what your use will be and also what unit you have now.

 

[BassAssassin]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

well it will mainly be used for Nor Cal lakes, up by you probably. from 10 to 40ft of water sometimes deeper. want to read accurately too 100ft. never in the bay or salt. love fishing for blackies so i need it to pick apart cover and pinpoint fish. dont really care about screen size and i dont know if color is any better. if it doesnt have any benefits then its not worth the money. i have an eagle, cuda(marroon one about $110) from walmart. this thing is a piece of junk though i think. sitting in 10ft of water could see gravel bottom and it marks a couple fish i was like wtf. the sensor was set fairly high too. so basically i need something i can trust. i am going to start fishing tourneys too so i need that confidence in it. ohh btw i have a local tourney tomarrow at camanche thats right by you boatist.well thanks for the help everyone that i know is going to post

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

No depth finder can tell you that what it see is a fish or a tree limb or a bush or some air bubbles. All it does is displays echos it get back from the ping it sent out.<br /><br />I think you will find when fishing a Tournament you will only use fish finder for finding depth and structure. In the ones I have fished I have never caught a bass in the 10 foot circle directly under the transducer. What we do use it for is after finding fish at a certain depth and moving to another location quicker to find fish there by starting at the same depth. Finding fish patterns and locations mostly done by lots of hours of pre fishing.<br /><br />Winter fishing at Folsom lake did catch a couple of Bass under the boat at 60 feet but for this you need food and a drink so you will not move bait to fast.

 

[BassAssassin]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

ya actually i was just sitting in a cove at berryessa eating lunch when i decided to get a temp reading and the damn thing started marking things and i could see bottom and there was nothing there. lol i was not fishing it. i used that as a reference to say that i want something accurate that marks structure well and is reliable. i really dont use it to mark fish to often, except when i do dropshot. i think i am leaning towards a lowrance x70 or x85 something like that.<br />me and my partner placed third at the tourney not as many boats showed as we would have liked though *sigh*. i think i am gonna do some future pros or reapers coming up. dunno yet though.

 

[jtexas]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Bassassasin, I recently upgraded from the bottom-of-the-line humminbird pirana to the Eagle Fishmark 320 (around $160) and the difference is astounding. My opinion, three most important features (for me) are: resolution, resolution and resolution. Humminbird, Lowrance, Eagle, all make quality units, but in my mind it's all about the pixel count (per sq. in. of screen). Having "zoom-in" and "zoom-out" buttons on the control panel is a big plus for me also. Humminbird has a bad reputation but mine was perfectly serviceable, reliable, accurate depth reading, just not enough pixels.<br /><br />I fish for white bass a lot & sometimes stripers, and unlike with LMB, actually catch fish that I see on the chart. When I'm jigging a 1 oz. slab I can see my lure on the screen and put it at just the right depth. I have actually watched fish take my lure.<br /><br />Boatist is right the sonar can't tell you what it's marking, but you can learn to distinguish fish from structure. Some folks can identify species of fish, not sure how exactly, but it's true.<br /><br />have fun and post your results!<br /><br />jtw

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

X70A is one of the best fish finders Lowrance ever made. The X85 good also but neither are sold anymore. You may still find it at E-Bay. You should know that the X70A used a 192 Khz transducer not 200 khz. Not a big deal as far as function but should you need to replace a transducer in the future the 200 will not work right on the X70A. I belive Lowrance's LEI may still sell some 192 Khz transducers but I would not expect that to continue too long. Transducer do fail so just be aware of what you getting.<br /><br /> http://www.lowrance.com/Marine/default.asp

 

[whiteman]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

jtexas you are right on the mark. Resolution is king. The Lowrance X125/X135's have 480x480 pixels and they clearly differentiate fish from structure. The new colour Lowrance with the same resolution will be better again.<br /><br />If your current sounder is not showing fish arches, it's time to pgrade!

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Whiteman<br />I would love to here you explain how it differentiate fish from structure. If you are saying that only fish arch then I strongly disagree. A tree limb will look the same as a fish. Also any fish finder with enough power to see fish in the outer edges of the transducer cone angle will show arches if set to raw returns.<br /><br />I will try to keep it simple and explain. To start with let's set up what we will see. A tree has fallen in the lake and floated out and then became water logged and sunk. One branch of this tree is about 30 feet deep in the water. Now we are fishing and working the shore line of this lake. Our fish finder has the standard 20 cone angle so at 30 feet deep will see a 10 foot circle under the transducer. As soon as the transducer get within 5 feet of being over the limb it will see the limb and light up a pixel when the echo come back. The ping is sent out and returns come back. This branch is 30 feet down and 5 feet foward of the Transducer so we light up a pixel around 32 feet down. As we continue to move foward toward the branch it gets closer to the transducer. The next ping is sent out and the echo comes back. Now the branch is 30 feet down and two feet foward so we light up a pixel 31 feet down. Next ping we are over the branch so the echo comes back as 30 feet from the transducer. Next we have past the branch so it is 30 feet down and 2 feet behind so we will display at 31 feet. Next ping the branch is 30 feet down and 5 feet behind the boat so the echo will be displayed as 32 feet from the transducer.<br /><br />Now how will this be displayed? The ping is sent out and the echo came back. The echo is always filled in as the right most vertical row on the LCD. So our fisrt echo came back at 32 feet away and we also got a echo off the bottom. Now what happends is the display is moved one pixel to the left and we send out another ping. this ping came back at 31 feet. Again we move the display one pixel to the left and then send out another ping. So after he have past over the tree limb we have a black pixel at 32 feet, 31 feet, 30 feet, 31 feet. and 32 feet. What we have is a arch that looks like a fish. Now of course there are many more pings and the returns light up more than one pixel but we still see an arch. Now if this tree has several branches it looks like a whole school of fish. Also there are two big bass hiding in the branches but since they did not move as we went by they look the same as all the branches.<br /><br />There is no simple way to explain but check out the link below of the fish arch and how it is drawn. Then think of what happeneds if instead of the fish it is a tree branch or a plastic jug anchored to the bottom. All the same display.<br /><br />In deep water then I agree Power and resolution make all the difference but for bass fishermen who catch most fish in 5 to 35 feet Resolution make very little difference.<br /><br /> http://www.lowrance.com/tutorials/sonar/sonar_tutorial_10.asp

 

[jtexas]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

The image of a single tree limb could be exactly the same as it is for a single fish. <br /><br />But if you're drifting over a clear bottom & pass a tree, it looks like a tree, not a school of fish. A school of fish is distinguishable from a tree. The fishfinder still just draws sonar returns; the fisherman has to learn the differences, sometimes subtle, sometimes no difference, but you can get the hang of it.<br /><br />Even over heavy cover, you can sometimes tell whether it's holding fish. I usually fish a known hotspot even if I don't mark fish, because they can hold so tight to cover or to the bottom that they don't show up.<br /><br />If the boat is held stationary, many times the fish don't draw arches, just crooked lines; depends on whether they swim straight through the sonar, or turn, or ascend or descend.<br /><br />But bass fishing is a different story - you almost never target fish that are under your boat anyway.<br /><br />BTW that's about the best tutorial I've ever seen; I've referred to it many times.<br /><br />[added later] after a more careful reading of what boatist said, I should add that whites & stripers feed in big schools, so I wouldn't care if I missed two isolated individuals as in the example, they're probably not hungry, anyway. But presumably he's talking about black bass which is another story.<br /><br />I can tell you from experience that a plastic jug won't make much of a sonar return until it gets a good growth of algae on it, then its shape is pretty recognizable. A lot of fishermen will anchor their Christmas trees in the lakes and sometimes you happen upon one. Frequently they use a plastic bottle to keep it upright.

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

My main point is not only fish make arches. Yes there are some differences as fish will often move. With fish many times only get a partial arch. also seen fish draw a stright line all the way accrossed the screen. Boat was anchored and fish came up under the boat for shade. Stayed there several minutes.<br /><br />Also most do not understand they can be directly over several fish and not see them on the depth finder even if it is set perfectly. This hapends when fishing a big drop off or a a big rock or a slope. Does not happen on a big flat bottom. <br /><br />I have never seen a tree laying on the bottom really look like a tree. Now a under water bush or a standing tree can look like a ball of bait or a tree. They often also do hold Bass perch and Crappie and shad minnows. A local lake I fish often for fun the water drops about 60 feet in fall and winter. Then in spring and early summer the lake will fill with snow runoff. By this time the bushes and tree have leaves before they are covered. Lots of small fish hide in them and lots of big bass watch them. This is about the only place I will use a crank or spinnder bait in this lake. <br /><br />I have been lucky enough to attend some meeting put on by a local bass club who paid fish finding expert to come in explain how to use the depth finder to find fish. Also some tricks to find the exact location of a under water channel or knoch. <br /><br />I been unlucky enough to win a bass tournament, actually My partner won the bass tournament with a 8.53 pound big bass but it was team tournament. Since we won over $1000 we are now considered PRO's and can not fish most of the Tournaments.<br /><br />I really prefer to fun fish anyway. Tournaments are more like work and not much fun to me. I mostly fish the delta and ocean for Lingcod, Halibut, Shark, Rockfish, Stripers and Salmon.<br /><br />Lowrance Totorial is a good basic statring point to start to under stand how the fish finder works. However it does not tell you what it can't do. The simulator they use have many full fish arches on the screen where the fish finder could not possibly see a full arch. Still at least they try and explain the basics where most company do not.

 

[jtexas]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Man, your partner catches a hawg & you get banned from local tourneys - talk about irony! He did at least split the loot with you, didn't he?<br /><br />Okay, you got structure with leaves in your lakes, that's got to complicate things. Mostly our lake beds were cow pastures with stands of hardwoods here & there, which long ago lost any kind of foliage. Most of the lakes have a couple or three "artificial reefs" where the Corps of Engineers cleared timber, piled it up & anchored it. But those are mapped, & any local fisherman with GPS has the waypoint already entered.<br /><br />Interpreting sonar returns can be more an art than a science, and I have a ways to go to master it. I might have been just a bit optimistic. But I swear those coke-bottle topped Christmas trees look just like a coke-bottle topped Christmas tree, scrolling across the screen, at least if you're drifting over it slowly enough. Wonder if it has something to do with ping speed, scroll speed, boat speed, sensitivity setting, that sort of thing?<br /><br />My local fishing forum gets together ever once in a while & invites guides to do seminars, and reading the fishfinder is a popular topic. How to find humps & points, how to tell if a school of bait is under attack, what different kinds of structure looks like, that sort of thing. <br /><br />Another complaint about those lowrance/eagle emulators: there's no description of what's really under the boat while the image is scrolling across the screen. They show you what you might see on the screen but don't explain what it actually is. I guess it'll have to do until somebody comes out with a better one.

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

We always share the entrance fee and option fees and split any winnings. Like any team Tournament no one really wins by themself. While he got the big fish most of the 7 fish limit we kept were my fish. In this tournament must use a net as can not touch the water. While one is retieing the other runs the trolling motor. When not catching fish both brainstorm as to spot to try or go deeper or shallower. I know many different way to fish but we always got our 7 fish limit first them started looking for big fish and cull out the smaller ones.<br /><br />I alway attend Electronics Seminars at all the winter boat shows. Most are put on by Party boat captains or guides. Some have been done by different Fish Finder companys like Lowrance. It a shame but some of the ones I been to were a total waist of time. Some are very good. Some know nothing about the difference of frequency and effect of different cone angles. <br /><br />Once a year I volunteer to be a spotter in a kids fishing tournament. Boats are required to have one adult and can have one or two kids. Adults run the boat and can run the trolling motor and net fish but not allowed to do any fishing. I hate to disqualify a team for the adults fishing but on the other hand will not allow an adult to catch fish and cheat the kids who catch there own fish out of winning. So I move around and try to be seen to keep teams honest. Let them know they are being watched. After the wiegh in they have a big barbecue and usually have a well know pro on hand to answer questions. I like to volunteer to help anyone who is having trouble with there depth finder to set it up out on the water. Many think their depth finders do not work at all as they have never seen a fish or even bottom. I fine most actually work but are not set up at all. Sensitivity set so low can hardly see bottom or set in manual and for a depth of 10 feet. Some just have to go back to factory defaults and start over. From this I would say the thing most people do is to set the sensitivity way too low. I do not understand why people think the display should be clean with no false returns.<br /><br />I have one question for You. How do you tell if a school of bait fish is under attack. In ocean water when I see bait fish pushed up off the bottom and near the surface where the birds are diving I figure there are fish under the school pushing them up. What is your Idea?

 

[BillP]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Boatist,<br />I'm no expert on depth sounders but I think they do tell the difference between fish and tree limbs. If I remember the reason correctly, echos off a fish's air bladder cause a different signal than solid objects like tree limbs.

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Thus the need for color, especially during foliage season.

 

[BassAssassin]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

lol, u guys are great. are you related? anyways i just bought a lowrance x135 off a very nice gentleman. the thing is pretty much brand new i just need a transducer. i am about to goto that site but any tips for setting up the thing? i appreciate all the help so far and hope it keeps on rolling in. thanks a bunch

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Did it come with the manual? Even if it did I would do two things. <br />1: Go to Lowrance web site and download the PDF manual and burn a copy to a CD.<br />2: Download the Product emulator and install on you PC and also burn that to a CD.<br /><br />You will want a 200 KHZ 20 degree transducer and you can get it with a temperature sensor or without. Price difference is about $20. I think it is worth it. It helps finding warn water to swim or fish for warm water fish.<br /><br />With 480 Vertical pixcels and 500 Watts unit is good even for deep water. Even salt water out to about 300 feet. Deeper than that you would want a 12 or 8 degree transducer. For fresh water Bass fishing much more than you need.<br /><br />If it was my unit I would start by getting every thing hooked up then I would reset to factory defaults. After that in auto mode turn the sensitivity up until you see many small false returns. Then you set to start fishing. At higher speeds even in auto mode may need to turn the sensitivity back down some. If you set sensitivity so low you do not get some false returns then you will also miss fish in deeper water. If you are fishing bottom fish like Catfish or Sturgeon then turn the gray line up until bottom only has a thin black line before it grays out. This makes fish laying on the bottom eaiser to see.<br /><br />I think the factory default chart speed is about right.<br /><br />Have fun and always put some fish back.

 

[BassAssassin]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

ya it came with a manual. the guy said he just powered it up once when he bought the boat then changed it for a x15 cause he wanted gps. i will goto that site and DL those 2 things. i really only fish for blackies, but i will hit those delta strippers depending on my company for that day. thanks for the great advice i appreciate it.<br /><br />and i always catch and release.

 

[Boatist]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

BillP<br />Yes I agree if you turn off gray line you may be able to see air bladders on some fish but many fish do not have air bradders. Most fisherman who cross a tree branch will think it is a fish. If you have gray line set a fish and a tree will switch to gray line and you will not be able to tell the difference. The air blatter on even a large fish is a very small target and I belive you can see it if set up perfect, but most including me will not detect it. Salmon a fish very hard to see in Saltwater some say can see bait fish in the stomach. Out here many say can not see Salmon at all and I have seen some pretty convincing evidence by a group useing a underwater camera and depthfinder side by side. Go to a Saltwater fishing camp ground and bring up the subject and a debate will start. The comerical Salmon fisherman offshore never talk about marking salmon. Instead they talk birds working bait or bait all over and no jelly or weeds but have caught no fish. This years January Boat show one of the electronic seminars Lowrance rep showed some slides of what he claimed to be Salmon. He was running in a Color dual frequency mode and had sensitivity turned up to a point that the screen both had more than 50 percent false returns. It did appear to be a large fish and quite a number of them. Still the Guy is selling Fish finders.<br /><br />One thing I can tell you for sure is in a area on the Sacramento river about 3 miles from my house there is a snag I belive to be a full size tree 40 or more feet wide. When you go over this spot you would say look at the fish stacked up here. That snag has been there for over 5 years. The targets are there durnng the fall salmon run, and durning the summer when no salmon are in the river. I see boats troll over it, jigg in it and have never seen a fish caught there. This is a area I fish anytime I decide to fish the Salmon run. I troll about a 1.5 mile section of the river but I always go around that snag or increase speed over it to get lines high enough to clear it. It is in a section on a big tree lined turn and the water drops from about 30 feet to 70 feet. Trolling up the river or drifting down the river you would swear it is a school of fish. If you move from bank to bank accrossed the current you get a very different picture. I have also used a graf hook and retreived many fishing lures from the snag. <br /><br />I am still learning to use my electronics and always will be but I have learned that many targets that look like a fish are not and many thet do not look like a fish are. In shallow water under 30 feet fish I see most of the time do not make full arches as the fish moves off or rises or drops into cover. One thing I like to do is after labor day I go up to a large local lake. By this time the jet ski's and water skiers are gone and the water clears up to the point can see 30 to 40 feet. This is when I like to go up and just move around and look at the bottom and how it displays on the LCD screen. Good way to learn how a rock bottom looks compared to a mud bottom. Just a good way to learn. Now Sales Reps will tell people what they want to here but a lot of what they say is very misleading and some is out right not true.

 

[jtexas]

Re: What is a good fishfinder for a decent price? What do you run?

Originally posted by Boatist:<br /> I have one question for You. How do you tell if a school of bait fish is under attack. In ocean water when I see bait fish pushed up off the bottom and near the surface where the birds are diving I figure there are fish under the school pushing them up. What is your Idea?

Oh yeah! whenever I see birds pointing their tailfeathers at the sky, I know I've hit the jackpot! Most of the lakes here have sizeable populations of seagulls, never mind we're 400 miles from the nearest coastline. I wanna see 'em circling and diving!<br /><br />Disclaimer: I've never actually gone beneath the surface to confirm whether my interpretation was correct, it's just based on experience of fish caught or not caught.<br /><br />Whenever a school of bait (here it's threadfin shad) is threatened, each individual tries to get into the center of the school, so the school balls up tighter and tighter. Looks kind of like a thumbprint on the graph. Or you get scattered balls of of bait at different depths. Even if I don't see fish under or around these, I'll fish 'em & usually catch a few. Usually you'll eventually see the fish arches, lots of times you'll see diagonal slashes from predators slicing through the bait ball. Ever once in a while, the bait gets so thick that the whole screen goes black if you zoom in to the bottom quarter of the water column. I've even seen the sonar start registering the bait school as the bottom!<br /><br />I've learned, though, that a ball of bait suspended in 50 feet of water don't necessarily mean a feeding frenzy, but if it's up on a hump in 18 to 25 feet surrounded by 35 or 40 ft depths, I'm pretty much gonna catch some fish.<br /><br />But, if I see the bait is strung out, looks like a line across the screen, maybe a quarter or halfway across it sometimes, a couple or three staggered lines separated by 2 or 4 feet of depth, I know from experience I won't catch fish there. All the shad want to be at that same depth, for comfort reasons I guess, oxygen, light or whatever is just right. They're relaxed and not too stressed at the moment.