What to look at buying I/O

[CaptOchs]

Help! I know a lot more about outboards than I/O's. I'm looking to buy a larger boat. It's a 1982 Wellcraft Bowrider 180, not sure if it's the XL or not. It's priced about $800.

What do I look for when I buy an I/O? Her other comments are: "Its a good running boat that we replaced the floor on 3 years ago we also replaced the exhaust bellows,Starter,steering cable,wheel ,ignition. The last time it was in the water was 2006 only because we bought another boat. It has been stored in a garage every winter. The only thing it does need is a rebuilt trim motor which I was quoted around $100.00."

The pictures look OK, but I'm confused as to the size of the engine. She says "It's a mercrusier 6 cyc 420." Is the 420 a model of an engine? 420 HP isn't right.

I'm going to see it tonight. Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

The pictures look OK, but I'm confused as to the size of the engine. She says "It's a mercrusier 6 cyc 420." Is the 420 a model of an engine? 420 HP isn't right.

I'm going to see it tonight. Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks.

Uh-oh... I'll bet she means it has a 4cyl "470" Mercruiser. In that case RUN AWAY!!! The outdrive isn't the issue, it's the engine that is BAD. Search 470 or 3.7 and you'll find out.
Now if it's a 6 cylinder, it could be a 4.3V6 or an old inline 6, neither of which are bad. In Mercruiser parlance 420 doesn't ring a bell, but if it did, it would mean it's a 4 cylinder not a 6 cylinder.

As far as Mercruiser outdrives, an Alpha One has a lower unit that operates just like outboards, dog clutch gears. Simple and effective. Not smooth, but effective. You would look for signs of water contamination or gear wear exactly like you would an outboard, pull the lower drain plug.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Her other comments are: "we replaced the floor on 3 years ago ....

You want to see what kind of job they did on the floor. Ask if they did any transom work as well. With an outdrive, the transom often gets soft from water intrusion. If they had a rotten floor, then the chances are good the transom is rotten as well. Regardless of what they say, you want to check that area out well, as a soft transom will mean it will leak water. There is no easy fix for that other than a rebuilding of the transom.

Also - I agree on the above - if it has the 4 cylinder "470" - then you really do want to continue looking.

 

[Aviator5]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Replacing just exhaust bellow, but not driveshaft and shift bellows sounds suspicious. That 470 could be overheated and thus exhaust bellow burned thru.

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

iBoats references the 180 Bowrider XL could have a 140 HP, 170 HP, or a 185 HP engine. Is a 470 motor 170 HP? I've done some searches. There are mixed feelings about them. Some people say if you take good care of them, they can be a nice reliable motor. Others think they have cooling system flaws.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

The long and the short of it.............just my opinion.

Sounds like this lady doesn't really know what she has...which is not a good sign to begin with. There was a Model 120 & a Model 470, but no 420, or 420 HP anything.

I don't think there was a V6 in 1982, and it looks like the inline 6 wasn't used by that year either. There was a Model 120 4 Cylinder (GM) and a 470 4 Cylinder (Ford/Mercruiser) in 1982.

I have a 1984 470, and although I have maintained mine well and really like it, the other posters are right. There were several issues with them that required a lot of love and determination. If the owner did not know, or ignored the issues, you will be very disappointed. Even though I have one, I would never buy a used one, let alone one that old.

My suggestion is that you find out exactly what it is and don't make any compulsive decisions... Post back what it is and keep your eyes open for that next great deal.

 

[sdoomaha]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

The 470 is the 4 cylinder 170 hp motor. They also had a 4 barrel version that was a 488 I believe, 188 hp so it could be the 185 hp motor mentioned.

I have one, and as Erie Ron pointed out, unless you are in love with the boat and have the capabilities to pull and rebuild a marine engine...you will not be happy with it. They have more issues than just the cooling system. If you are looking for something very reliable that will require only regular maintenance, you would be much better served looking for something else. Most 470s that age have not been cared for very well...and the number of issues it may have could very easily leave you frustrated if you do the work yourself, or broke it you have to take it somewhere to be worked on.

Good luck whatever decision you make.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Mercruiser has called their failed engine experiment many things:

465, 470, 485, 488, 3.7, 3.7L, 3.7LX

Basically the "4" is the cylinders and the next two numbers are the horsepower less the first hundred. Make sense?

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Thanks for the feedback. I have no particular affinity with this exact boat. I'm looking to upgrade to a bigger boat, hoping to catch an end of the season deal.

It looks like:

140 HP = GM 181
170 HP = Mercury 470
185 HP = Mercury 485

Is the 485 any better or is it basically the same engine?

What about the GM 181/140HP. Any issues with this engine?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Is the 485 any better or is it basically the same engine?

What about the GM 181/140HP. Any issues with this engine?

485 is not any better, really. Same engine, maybe with some updates, but still a maintenance nightmare.

The 3.0l 4 cyl is a good engine. They have used it for years, and they still use it. (So does Volvo Penta) It's just a little coarse, and not very refined, since it is a 1960's era engine, that's stood the test of time.

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Ouch.. More technical data regarding coolant leaks with 470. Sounds like serious labor to fix:
http://www.sterndrives.com/470information/470coolantleakrepair.html

They even use the term "poor 470 and 3.7 owners" in this page to retrofit the alternator. LOL! http://www.sterndrives.com/470_alternator_kit.html

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

I think you have done enough research to come to your own conclusions..
NOT to start any "greatest boat motor of all time" debate..
BUT
As mentioned, the 3.0 GM 4 bangers have a long history (started as 2.5, I can be corrected, I'm ok with that!..lol) and have been very reliable..
Parts are available and well supported.

Here's my 41 year old 120 hp (2.5) a couple weeks ago when I was finally able to put her in the river, thanks to all the help I got here. Hit 31 on GPS and dont have some bugs worked out yet.

I apologize in advance for a cheesy home vid..lol

 

[Lou C]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Honestly I'd think twice about buying any boat that old with a wood structure...which it most certainly does have and rot can be anywhere and everywhere...plus old old I/O problems....it gives me a headache just thinking about it...I'd keep saving money till you can get a nice later model boat with an engine and drive system that is still in production and easy to get parts for...like an 18-19 footer with a 4.3 Merc Alpha...keep in mind that any I/O can be a mechanical and financial disaster if not maintained...and it doesn't have to that old for that to be the case...if they are well maintained...25 years is not unheard of...heck...my 22 year old OMC 4.3 Cobra...still gets round pretty well...despite salt water use....but it was always maintained...and when problems came that I couldn't fix...I took it to the best OMC shop around...
So be careful....and remember if you want cheap parts prices IO is OK...but low maintenance OBs still are best.....

 

[Glastron_V210]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Ah, king of the world.

4 words that make all the work worth it.

C

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

OK.. I went and saw it. Unfortunately it IS a Merc 470.

Most of the upholstery needs to be replaced except the back-to-back seats. The teak is grey, like seasoned firewood. The refinished floor was solid, except for under the rear seats. I stepped on it and made a hole. lol. We checked the gears. Forward worked good. It was a little rough going in reverse; made a little noise. It took a little bit of effort to start, but he said it was because of old gas. Once it got going it ran very smooth in low and medium idle. I think someone might have replaced some seals because there was an orange goo, almost like caulk where the seals are. I should have taken a camera. It didn't look like they put the aftermarket alternator or anything.

The only positives are it seems to run well. The hull & transom appear solid. It has a flawless stainless steel prop on it. The skeg and lower end doesn't have any visible damage. Aside for some cosmetic issues the only problem is the reputation of the motor. The seller is listing it for $900, but might take anything over $700. It runs and floats, I don't know. Maybe I should save a little more.

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

or take a bunch of mechanics classes and be ready to work on the engine all the time. i suggest you listen to these guys--they know what they are talking about. based on what i've read here over the last few years, i would run from a 470. my 140 (older 3.0L) is so very basic... with my limited experience it's the right motor for me--easy enough to work on and reliable. i've read some other threads where guys got good deals on nice boats with a 3.0L i/o for $600 to $700. so they're out there in this economy. good luck boat hunting!

 

[Aviator5]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

My first boat had 470 in it. Ran perfect on the ground, on low and medium idle. Ran good in the water until about 3/4 of full throttle. But after I ran it at full, I found all my colant in the bilge. No conventional tests would reveal any faults. Compression checked good, leak test checked good. Only when I pulled the head off, I found the bridge between number 1 and 2. It was a project boat, priced accordingly, so I was prepaired.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

OK.. I went and saw it. Unfortunately it IS a Merc 470.

Most of the upholstery needs to be replaced except the back-to-back seats. The teak is grey, like seasoned firewood. The refinished floor was solid, except for under the rear seats. I stepped on it and made a hole. lol. We checked the gears. Forward worked good. It was a little rough going in reverse; made a little noise. It took a little bit of effort to start, but he said it was because of old gas. Once it got going it ran very smooth in low and medium idle. I think someone might have replaced some seals because there was an orange goo, almost like caulk where the seals are. I should have taken a camera. It didn't look like they put the aftermarket alternator or anything.

The only positives are it seems to run well. The hull & transom appear solid. It has a flawless stainless steel prop on it. The skeg and lower end doesn't have any visible damage. Aside for some cosmetic issues the only problem is the reputation of the motor. The seller is listing it for $900, but might take anything over $700. It runs and floats, I don't know. Maybe I should save a little more.

Usually a deck that rotted is from substantial water intrusion...If you can put a hole in the deck stepping on it..what about the stringers under there that have been soaked as well.

Plus the fact that it's the stern area..How did you test the transom? It can look good, but be softer than baby food inside..Did ya whack it with a rummber mallet? What did ya hear?

I'd really hate to see you get this home and find out it needs not only the deck work done, but the stringers and transom as well..you may be putting another 3 or 4 grand into that hull..not accounting for any mechanical issues, which as you know now that engine is nortorius for...

Just something to think about..

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Usually a deck that rotted is from substantial water intrusion...If you can put a hole in the deck stepping on it..what about the stringers under there that have been soaked as well.

Plus the fact that it's the stern area..How did you test the transom? It can look good, but be softer than baby food inside..Did ya whack it with a rummber mallet? What did ya hear?

I'd really hate to see you get this home and find out it needs not only the deck work done, but the stringers and transom as well..you may be putting another 3 or 4 grand into that hull..not accounting for any mechanical issues, which as you know now that engine is nortorius for...

Just something to think about..

I agree totally. Keep walking, this boat is not a good choice.

 

[CaptOchs]

Re: What to look at buying I/O

Usually a deck that rotted is from substantial water intrusion...If you can put a hole in the deck stepping on it..what about the stringers under there that have been soaked as well.

Plus the fact that it's the stern area..How did you test the transom? It can look good, but be softer than baby food inside..Did ya whack it with a rummber mallet? What did ya hear?

I'd really hate to see you get this home and find out it needs not only the deck work done, but the stringers and transom as well..you may be putting another 3 or 4 grand into that hull..not accounting for any mechanical issues, which as you know now that engine is nortorius for...

Just something to think about..

It's hard to tell. The inner transom had good fiberglass. The wood inside could be rotten, but I don't know. The floor was replaced a few years prior. He obviously didn't complete the flooring under the rear seats. I really don't have a good feeling for this boat so I'm not going to buy it.

Hey does anyone know if a '67 or '68 Merc 950 95 HP (outboard) has power trim/tilt? It doesn't appear to. I might go look at another boat. I heard they are good engines. I don't have the S/N. Thoughts? Sorry to go off-topic.