What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

[s freud]

So I just bought my first boat on the cheap and have been lurking around here and learning a lot. I have to replace a bunch of rivets that leak or are missing, as well as some steel bolts someone also used on my little aluminum boat. Here is my question, I have a 14 foot jon boat with three seats. The rivets holding the middle seat and bow side of the back seats have pulled through the aluminum (see pics below). Does that mean someone put too much weight in it? Is the aluminum so thin that it is not worth fixing? There are no details on the boat at all as far as brand, numbers, age, or even weight or occupancy limits. My goal is to get three adults on it for fishing and eventually a 9.9 hp. I have more time than money and consider myself a decent student. Also, what is this junk they tried to cover the rivets with? It is dark grey and now flakes off in chunks like thick old paint? Thanks!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

If the bulk of the damage is at the middle seat & the front side of the rear seat, I'd bet someone stepped into the boat while it was not in the water, or it was lifted (into or out of the water, & not on a trailer) while loaded w/ gear, gas & motor. Without the resistance of the water behind the hull, it isn't very strong. It could also have filled w/ water & your seeing freezing ice expansion damage.

No matter the cause, if the gray goop is flaking off, it should be removed.

Surf over to the Starcraft owners forum & read thru some tinny resto threads, You'll need to replace the damaged/missing rivets w/ closed end aluminum shank rivets. JB Weld for marine use could be used to repair the holes, but you also need the reinforcement structure provided by the seats & those rivets holding it together. It may be involved, esp w/ the now larger diameter holes left behind by the damaged rivets.

There are lots of helpful info on rivets over there, links to videos on re-bucking rivets can be found on YouTube, but if the rivets have pulled thru the hull or are missing, you don't have a leaking rivet to re-buck.

You might look for a similar thickness hull & size jon boat (beam & length, and height of the gunwales (sides)) and check for a max capacity & max HP rating, a 9.9hp OB & 3 adults may, or may not, be more then it was designed to support safely.

Best of luck getting it fixed & back out on the water.

 

[s freud]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

you also need the reinforcement structure provided by the seats & those rivets holding it together. It may be involved, esp w/ the now larger diameter holes left behind by the damaged rivets.

Can I just put a similar sized piece of aluminum over that lip and drill holes in it over the other holes? That would also add extra strength right?

 

[Brenn]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

yeah but you will still need to rivet it in place,but extra strength is always nice

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Yep, and get some 3M 5200, it is available at HD here. Use it on the back of both pcs of aluminum patch panel. Try to get the 5200 under the edge of the seat brackets before you install the patch panels too. Closed end blind aluminum rivets are available here online

 

[s freud]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Absolutely will still rivet it. How do I tell the size of the rivets I need? From other forums it looks like 1/4" is standard, but the ones on my boat (see pic in fist post with pencil) look more like a half inch in diameter. Do they expand when installed and I am just being dense? The rivets on the site you posted have a measurement for diameter and grip. Which am I looking at? Sorry for the rookie questions.

 

[djpeters]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Rivets are measured by the body diameter, not by the head diameter. If you are needing to fill a 1/2" diameter hole you'll need to make a patch like said above. A 1/2" diameter rivet is huge.

 

[Jlawsen]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

The good news is that you can fix it. All you need to do is grind the ends off the original rivits and punch them through. Get yourself some new larger rivits of a size that will fill the hole and a head size that will grasp the material sufficently. You can also use a flat washer to add surface area. You'll shoud use real rivits and buck them (search the internet for information on how to buck rivits). You can use closed end pop rivits if you want. That would be easier but not as professional.

When you get the old rivits out, gently open up the seam and clean out in between. Go to home depot and get a roll of vulcanizing rubber in the electrical department. Cut a strip and place it between the two pieces. You could use 5200 in a pinch but the vulcanizing rubber will allow the joint to flex which is what you want.

The grayish-black stuff is Marine-Tex and is a marine repair epoxy. If the metal had been cleaned to bright white you would never be able to peel it off. If you want to use it to fill any larger holes, its a good product. West Marine carries it and I've used it. The key is in the preparation.

Once you have it fixed, get yourself a quart of Gluv-It (West Marine has it). Power wash the interior and spread the Gluv-it liberally over all the seams. Gluv-it remains flexible and will go a long way's in sealing and preventing future leaks. Its not a perfect solution but it works pretty well.

So there you go, I think for around 100.00 you can have your boat fixed.

 

[Brenn]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

if your holes were really big you could also have them welded,probably pretty cheaply

 

[Jlawsen]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

if your holes were really big you could also have them welded,probably pretty cheaply

I can weld it and I know a couple of other welders that might give it a go but most shops will refuse. The first problem is that you don't know what type of aluminum it is. You can heat it up and see if it goes soft on you. That's a pretty good indication that its 6000 series. If it doesn't and retains its form fairly well then it might be 5000 series. Both alloys are weldable given enough skill. The other problem is getting it clean enough to weld. That stuff will be full of contaminants and will spit at you like a mad cobra. It's not as easy as you'd think.

You can't use spray transfer because you won't have enough control. You'll have to TIG it and weld no more than 2" at a time allowing it to cool in between. You have to get it bright white clean, then clean it with acetone and a stainless steel wire brush. You can make a couple of pre-heat cleaning passes over it with a map gas torch and then clean it again. That will draw out most of the contaminants but if it spits you'll throw a chunk of tungsten in the mix and you'll have to grind that out before you can continue.

Still think this is an easy cheap solution?

 

[Brenn]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

I figured it would have to be tig welded,Ive seen several people do this and havent heard anything bad happening when doing sf course they werent doing it themselves,lol.Just an idea.

 

[s freud]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

I am definitely not welding anything myself. I like the idea above about using washers to deal with larger holes instead of adding another piece of aluminum (for where the seats were pulled through). A couple questions:

-If one possible source of the pulled-through rivets is weight in the boat while on land, how do I get in it to work on it? Again, the metal is thin (about the thickness of aluminum sheeting used for facia on houses). Luckily, I only weigh 145lbs.

-My other question is the best way to remove old rivets/steel screws. I hate to use a grinder because with such a thin hull, if I touch it I have a nice hole in the boat. Can I use a standard drill bit for the screws, or is the best way to just be careful with a grinder on some sort of dremel?

 

[Brenn]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

you just drill them out,center punch the rivet head and that will give you a divit to put the tip of the drill bit in and then drill them out.

 

[Jlawsen]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

The reason I prefer to grind them is because there is no risk of going off center and elongating the original hole. I grind them off with a cuttoff wheel on a 4" grinder. I also remove the guard and wear my old MIG welding gloves. I can get into some pretty tight spots and if you take your time you won't grind through the surounding aluminum. You don't have to take them down flush, leave them up just a touch and then use a center punch to drive them out.

 

[linxlvr]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

This might be bad advice, but you MIGHT consider scrap value and finding another.
Just a thought.
--
dw

 

[Teamster]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

I wouldn't scrap it,...

Jon boats are made to be beaten and patched up,....

Nothing a couple of bucks and some time wont fix on that boat,...

 

[s freud]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Thanks guys. I am definitely not scrapping at this point thanks to you all's feedback and the knowledge here in the forums. What about this question?

-If one possible source of the pulled-through rivets is weight in the boat while on land, how do I get in it to work on it? Again, the metal is thin (about the thickness of aluminum sheeting used for facia on houses). Luckily, I only weigh 145lbs.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Don't cut the grass on time this week, & set it on the flattest part of the yard in the tallest grass. On the trailer, on fairly uneven ground, probably not a good idea to be in there crawling around though even at 145lbs, if it's fascia thin aluminum....

 

[s freud]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Sounds like I am better off propping it on its side and working from the outside... I hadn't thought of that. Is that the best way?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What would pull out rivets and is my boat junk?

Sounds good, just make sure to brace it well so it won't rock