What's the quality difference

[shadow3g]

Hello, I'm currently looking to purchase a newer boat I have a 1975 25ft Searay which all I've heard of is "Its a solid boat", "they don't make them like that anymore" The boats I'm looking at to purchase are all in the 34ft range they're between a Searay Sundancer, a Bayliner Advanti and Cruiser. Which of these boats have better construction qualities able to hold up to Atlantic boating I live in North Carolina and would spend as I do now most of my time out at sea anywhere from 5 to 30 miles offshore, seas permitting. I've heard some bad things about Bayliners but not sure they're coming from knowledgable persons. I know that what I'm asking is nothing more then personable preference and opinion, but I would like it from someone more knowledgable then myself. Thank you very much.

 

[magster65]

Re: What's the quality difference

As a Sea Ray owner (twice now) I can tell you they're lighter than they used to be but I wouldn't say that makes them weaker though. The hulls are always improving with advances in design and materials technology. The newer ones ride as smooth but don't carry all the extra weight so they perform better. They don't make 'em like they used to, they make them better.<br />In my opinion, a Bayliner is a decent, reasonably priced boat especially when you move up from the runabout sized units. The reputation they got in the 70's and 80's still haunts the company even though they've improved a great deal since then. I've been on some 'bigger' Bayliners and they are fabulous boats (ask a surveyer). I have a biased opinion I guess but in that 34-ish/new-ish size of boat I would go with a Sea Ray because I like the lines better on most models and they have a better resale value.<br /><br /><br />Here we go...

 

[paulie0735]

Re: What's the quality difference

For the money either is very hard to beat, there are better boats on the market but the extra cost goes into there fittings and fixtures and rarely if ever into the structure. At the size of boat your considering I would also buy a Sea Ray if only for the better resale value. In this price range all the family cruisers are fairly much on a par, it’s not till you get into the commercial range that the heavier build quality really starts to become obvious and even than it’s a stronger construction rather than a 'better' construction based on its intended use. Good luck.

 

[KCook]

Re: What's the quality difference

Every brand has its fans. Here is a thread on another site that goes into cruisers this size -<br /><br /> http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55627 <br /><br />Kelly Cook

 

[mattttt25]

Re: What's the quality difference

as you get larger, you want more quality. my best advice, without taking up a lot of your time- get youself a bunch of issues of boating magazine. read all the reviews (usually 11-14 per issue). don't skip any of them, regardless of whether it's your type of boat (20' cc or 60' cruiser). i learn more about quality and construction there than anywhere else. the evaluators tell you what they like and don't like on each boat. you really start to understand why these boats cost so much when you read what they look for and expect.

 

[Davenc]

Re: What's the quality difference

At this point I own three boats. Not as big as you are looking at but 28 footers. Boat one is a Bayliner. 28' Ciera. I love this boat. Its spacious inside and out. Easy keeper. Boat two is a Formula, also a 28' boat. Nice boat but I dont like it. Beam is narrower, layout inside isnt good for more than three people. Always some thing needing attention (I know all boats need attention, but this one is so touchy)<br /><br />Third boat 28' Wellcraft. Again not so roomy. Handels well though.<br />I live in Swansboro NC and also go out in the ocean. So far the Bayliner is the boat I feel more comfortable going past the breakers in.<br />They have a bad rep, but mine gives me less issues than both my other two.

 

[samsam]

Re: What's the quality difference

This is odd, now there are 3 threads with the same subject. I would delete one if I could but, alas and alack, it's not possible. Anyway here is what I posted in case you don't see it....<br /> shadow3g,<br />For some reason I couldn't reply to your thread so I copied the subject header and reposted it. DeeJayCee commented Bayliners were good boats and I would agree, at least as far as the 1990 one I rebuilt the interior of after an alcohol stove explosion. But that was then and boats aren't made the same now. A 1975 Searay may have been "a solid boat", but the statement "they don't make them like that anymore" is what you should be concerned with. Here's a blurb from a surveyors site on hurricane damaged boats titled "Are They Fiberglass Boats Anymore?"..."One good example is a Sea Ray where the hull side had ONE layer of woven roving, two thin layers of chopped strand mat, and all the rest of the laminate was some kind of brittle putty." Here's another..."Here's fine illustration of what is meant by the laminate being comprised of an extremely small amount of fiberglass reinforcement. The only glass you see here is a single layer of Roving on the inside of the hull, with the exception of a very, very thin layer of mat against the gel coat. Otherwise, the major part of this Sea Ray hull is comprised of some kind of very porous material. Notice how huge chunks have broken away. This would never happen with fiberglass laminate."<br />Here's the site and if you look at the top of the page, there is more info to be had. Sam <br /> http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

 

[samsam]

Re: What's the quality difference

Cripes! Here's more from here (same general site).."Even so, its nice to see that Sea Ray is at least paying some attention to their problems and making corrections. However, being one of the most widely sold boats in the U.S., we get a lot of e-mail asking, "Why do you pick on SeaRay?" This is typical of the sort of "shoot the messenger" syndrome that surveyors know all to well. As if we're at fault for pointing the nature of the product.<br /><br />When it comes to a rating, maybe we should let you decide. Is this what you'd expect for a 29' boat that carries a list price of $125,000? Things put together with staples? Galley held up with one screw? Engines good for 2 years? How would you feel about buying a new Lexus, which costs less than half the price, with defects like this? As we've said before, we don't offer this criticism to assuage our own egos; we know that boat building is a tough business, and that its hard to survive from recession to recession. But SeaRay happens to be the largest boat builder in the world, so a lack of resources and engineering can't be an excuse. We've seen their facilities and its a big time, big money operation. So why not do it right?"<br /> http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/Sundancer_290_update.htm

 

[tommays]

Re: What's the quality difference

I like Davids reviews BUT most are really old 10 to 15 years and dont show current build quality<br /><br />The searay is 13 years old<br /><br /><br />And then a Searay will get ripped because the cabin sole can get wet easy and a tiara will gat a free pass on the same problem ?<br /><br />You wont really find any good reviews on the boats MOST of us will be buying but it does give you a good idea what to look for on a used boat<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[samsam]

Re: What's the quality difference

The guy does have his opinions, that's for sure, but he brings up points that make sense. The article on cores in hull bottoms was interesting. The way he rips on things is sort of funny. I find it kind of curious that he mentions Bayliner and Sea Ray as being some of the most popular and biggest selling boats in the U.S., but does no reviews of Bayliner.?<br />Talk is cheap, but when he backs it up with photos it's hard to argue against. The hurricane report is from 2000 and even though the age of the boats is unknown, if Sea Ray peddled obvious crap as is shown, at a time when oil and it's products were cheap, they have more 'splaining to do than Lucy before I would trust them to build a solid boat as compared to a profitable boat. <br />David Pascoe might come off as being a negative person, but he is basically a surveyor and not a salesman. His main job is not to sell you on the good things but to point out the bad things, and that sort of carries into his 'reviews'. But basically he is just the messenger, he didn't build the boats but he sees the shortcomings and reports them. By reading what he says about the problems of boats, you can not only get an idea what to look for in a used boat, you get a very good idea of what to look for in a new boat as well. Attention to unseen detail is a sign of quality. Kicking the tires of a car might not tell you much, but kicking the side of a boat can be informative. <br />But like you, until the lottery or my efforts to convince Bill Gates that I really am an illegitimate offspring of his come through, the closest I come to Sea Ray is buying some kind of boat from Sea Rs Roebuck. Sam

 

[magster65]

Re: What's the quality difference

There ya' go. Sounds like you've made your choice. <br />That's odd that there are no Bayliner surveys on Pascoe's website. Not that I don't like them, on the contrary, I do, but you'd think he'd have at least a couple on the worlds largest selling brand name. His articles are 'critical reviews' of all manufacturers so it'd be nice to have the Bayliner in there as a benchmark much like they are in the real world.<br />I've found that most surveyors are willing to share an opinion and some insight if you ask them. Talk to a few. That's what I've done in the past and I recommend you do the same before you make your purchase.

 

[dave420_p]

Re: What's the quality difference

i have a1975 24 ft sea ray sundancer i have replaced absolutely all wood except the teak does any body know any thing about the quality of this boat or have any info on this boat that might or might not be helpful i just wanna try to learn everything about this boat so i can know if im missing anything that these boats had problems with
thanks

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: What's the quality difference

Sea Ray from what I know are a very well built boat. Couple of friends have 27ft versions from that era and love them.

 

[kamby]

Re: What's the quality difference

The thing i found with the bayliners in the 70's and 80's with the thinner hulls, if you take care of them there fine. If you leave them out in the open and fill with water and dont care of them they rot hmmmm. I have an 1985 Bayliner Capri, good running boat, but has the thin hull (remember back then fuel economy was a big issue cause of the oil crisis). Ive seen newer boats that were rotted sea rays included. Its about what works for you. This bayliner is nice cause it has a wider beam. Comfortably can move around, plus i built a plat form for the back to toss the crab pots on and down riggers. 4 cyl engine gets good fuel economy nice big engine compartment to work on it, only problem is getting to the oil pan and volvo's fasination with the giant drain plug.

How the saying goes worse thing you can do to a boat is stick it in the water...

 

[JoLin]

Re: What's the quality difference

This is precisely why a survey of the boat is so important. At some point, the boat's current ondition becomes a lot more important than whether it was high end or low end when it was built.

I go to all the boat shows, and I gotta tell you, time after time I've been impressed with the Bayliner boats. They seem to offer a lot of intelligent design and useability for the price. I came this close to buying a late-90's 2452 Ciera Classic before I bought the Chris. It's a really well thought-out weekender for a couple. The power plants and outdrives are all the same, so choose on the basis of condition and how well the design suits your needs (and the Admiral's )

Then, have a pro go over it.