What's the sales #'s

[Musclford]

How many does each manufacture sell?<br /><br />Looking at the post on the forums, Johnson/Evinrude have considerable more posts. <br /><br />Maybe this isn't any indication, but didn't know if they publish actual sales #'s<br /><br />Thanks!!<br /><br />Phil

 

[JB]

Re: What's the sales #'s

Hi, Phil.<br /><br />You will note that a lot of the JohnnyRude posts are about engines that are 30 to 60 years old.<br /><br />I think that says something about their useful life, as well as their sales volume from about 1946 to the mid 70s, at least.<br /><br />If you compare numbers from, say, 1980 to 2000 models I think they pretty much reflect relative sales volume for that period.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: What's the sales #'s

If you go by stats in that manner, then "Other" wins hands down! Johnson and Evinrude have been around since the dawn of Outboard Time. Carl Kiekhaeffer came along several decades later. Heck, Sea King is way older than Mercury.

 

[cajun555]

Re: What's the sales #'s

I was at my OMC/merc parts house and talked with mech. about mercs. He gave me an example, He said, "that carb kit for your 50's johnson is 20 bucks, one for the mercury would be about 60. That sold me to stay away. Now I'm not bashing mercs, infact I had one years ago and it was a good mtr, after I found ign. parts. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What's the sales #'s

The manufacturers are pretty close-mouthed about numbers of motors sold. You can find total numbers of all motors sold by year from the industry trade publications.<br /><br />Right now Merc is #1, Yamaha second, and Johnson-Evinrude third.<br /><br />Last year in a news release from Yamaha Japan, they said they produced about 350,000 outboards worldwide. That would mean about 250-300,000 sold in the US. I don't have the exact number handy.<br /><br /><br />From that figure, you can see how small the marine industry is compared to about 15 million cars per year being sold in America.

 

[Forktail]

Re: What's the sales #'s

I lost all respect for Merc when they filed a case this year accusing the Japanese outboard manufacturers of breaking our US anti-dumping laws.<br /><br />Merc basically said the Japanese outboard manufacturers were selling their outboards in the US at less than a fair value, which is against our US trade laws. They claim this devastated the US made outboard market (read: Merc) and was the cause of the increasing sales of the Japanese outboards here in the US (read: decline of Merc sales). <br /><br />What really pizzes me off is that the whole time Merc was taking advantage of this anti-dumping thing by buying tons of Yamaha 4-stroke engines for their own models! Obviously the real cause of Mercs decline in the market was a result of their own short-comings. Their Optimax technology had troubles and didn't sell well, and they couldn't make a competitive 4-stroke engine (so they bought Yamaha engines). So rather than make a competitive outboard, Merc cries foul play. We all know most boaters don't buy outboards based on price alone, but rather the reputation, quality, and performance of the outboard.<br /><br />So now we are going to get a 22.52% import charge on each Japanese made outboards brought into the US. Heck, weren't the Yamaha's and Honda's expensive enough already? And won't the Canadian Bombardier have to raise their prices now too?<br /><br />I see Merc going down the tubes fast, and this one will put them over the edge. The other outboard makers have deep pockets and I predict they will come at Merc with vengeance.

 

[JB]

Re: What's the sales #'s

I pretty much agree with Forky on this.<br /><br />I do think Merc makes good engines, but their PR stinks. <br /><br />Brunswick's predatory marketing practices (you can't buy a Brunswick boat without a Merc on it, for example) and whining about better engines being sold cheaper have offended many people.<br /><br />Most of the Bombardier 2 strokes are made in USA, I think, but Suzuki makes the middle and large 4 strokes.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What's the sales #'s

JB,<br /><br />Suzuki makes all the Johnson 4-strokes except for the 6 and 8hp models which are OMC's original design and were marketed under the Evinrude banner before Bombardier aquired OMC's assets.<br /><br /><br />The anti-dumping 22.52% import bond applies to all Japanese manufactures, not just Yamaha.

 

[Forktail]

Re: What's the sales #'s

The anti-dumping 22.52% import bond applies to all Japanese manufactures, not just Yamaha.

That's what I said here...<br /><br />"...filed a case this year accusing the Japanese outboard manufacturers of breaking our US anti-dumping laws."<br /><br />and here...<br /><br />"So now we are going to get a 22.52% import charge on each Japanese made outboard brought into the US."<br /><br />Yamaha is of importance because Mercury bought Yamaha's engines during same time they accused Yamaha of breaking the anti-dumping laws. Looks like the fox was in the hen house perhaps? Plus Yamaha is on the steps of Mercury gaining US sales as Mercury's sales drops. So instead of concentrating on making a better, more appealing product, Mercury cries foul play. Seems spineless to me. As an American, I'm not proud of their business practices, and I'd just as well like to see them put their efforts into making a more competitive product.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What's the sales #'s

My take on the situation is that Verado cost Merc a lot more than was budgeted and it took a year longer to be introduced than was forcast, plus it is an expensive product to manufacture due to its complexity and low production numbers. They cannot sell the Verado for much more than what other manufacturers sell a similar sized outboard motor. With nothing to lose, Merc initiated the dumping charge and let the government do the legwork. Now,if the tariff is upheld, Japanese outboards will become more expensive and Merc can then raise their prices to help cover the R&D costs and make a bigger profit per unit. The importation of Yamaha 4-stroke powerheads was a temporary deal to buy time until the Verado went into production.<br /><br />Merc is now in the process of setting up factories in China for inexpensive manufacturing of their smaller outboards.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What's the sales #'s

my personall feeling is a merc isnt a good anchor when it was made in fondulac, I cant wait to see how the chinese motors pan out. maybe merc will go away and leave the rest of us be .<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[walleyehed]

Re: What's the sales #'s

WOW!!!.....I'm just preparing for Merc training coming up shortly...doin' my DVDs and VHSs, and the pre-test, so all's a go...how biased am I going to be walking in for training...livin' a life with J/E.<br />Gonna be interesting how they brain-wash....

 

[BillP]

Re: What's the sales #'s

Merc is doing the same thing Harley did back in the 70s. It ended up making jap motorcycles over 700cc cost WAY more. I didn't like it then and don't like merc doing it today. They should either stay competive through free market or close the doors. Merc was lucky enough with the original OMC going under and leaving a vacuum for merc motors to fill.

 

[sledhead041]

Re: What's the sales #'s

I don’t think you all understand what has happened here with this situation. There are a few things in this post that really bother me. As was stated there will be a duty imposed on ALL engines coming in from other countries. This means yes even Mercury themselves will have to pay on the engines that are build over seas. I don’t think Brunswick would have allowed Mercury to file this if they didn’t feel it was for the better of the industries, they own a major portion of Tohatsu. Everyone seems to not want to look at the big picture. All the manufactures where looked at during the case and here is even a article from BRP on the case. <br /><br /> BRP REACTS TO U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE RULING ON JAPANESE OUTBOARD ENGINE DUMPING <br /><br />Sturtevant, WI, August 6, 2004 - BRP US Inc. welcomes today's ruling by the United States Department of Commerce (DOC), which found significant dumping of outboard engines on the part of Yamaha Motor Corporation. DOC has ruled that a duty of 22.52% will apply to all Japanese-made engines and powerheads imported into the U.S. beginning next week.<br /><br />"Today's announcement confirms that Yamaha has competed unfairly by selling outboard engines in the United States below what they sell in Japan," said Roch Lambert, Executive Vice-President. "The corrective action that will result from this ruling, which affects all Japanese manufacturers, should contribute towards returning the American market to a level playing field," concluded Lambert.<br /><br />If you where to look at Mercury’s cash status, they are far more successful this year then they where at this time last year. This has nothing to do with why they would file something like this. They where looking out for there American employees here in the states. They where forced to make another plant in China because we Americans wont work for less then ten dollars an hour. I know that me as an American am very grateful that the big guy is looking out to help keep more jobs here in America. Mercury employs over 3500 people in its Fond du Lac headquarters alone and help many hard working Americans make a living selling and repairing there engines. I think us Americans on this board need to step back and look at the big picture before we condemn them for there actions. I can personally state that I have never had a manufacture take care of it’s customer like Mercury does. I have a lot of respect for them as I have seen a lot of things covered under warranty or customer relation when it was clearly the fault of the customer.

 

[Guest]

Re: What's the sales #'s

My two cents:<br /><br />I've owned two Mercury motors and was not happy with either. I've also owned two Evinrudes including a new e-tec--and i really like them. So, I'm not bashing American-made motors. I just agree that Merc has made some bad motors and are now looking to blame someone. <br /><br />They had no problem with Yamaha when it was benefiting them. I just hope this does not allow quality to fall even further (because of less competition)--or prices to rise too much. Let's hope the tarrif just buys them a little time to get their act together. <br /><br />If it's handled right, prices should actually come down while quality goes up. Maybe i'm too optimistic but that's waht can--and should--happen.

 

[Forktail]

Re: What's the sales #'s

Nick, if you're Mercury Marine and you've got plans to introduce your own 4-stroke engine line, rather than continue to buy them from Yamaha, doesn't this whole thing make sense? Since you'd be building your own engines, the increased duty incurred from buying Yamaha's engines won't effect you. And last time I checked the increased duty only applies to Japanese manufacturers, and China (Merc) isn't in Japan. <br /><br />I'm sure Mercury has some type of legal contract which binds Yamaha to supply them with engines. Merc will use this leverage until they can begin to supply their own. They know Yamaha can't legally leave them out to dry over this, although it would be interesting to see what would happen if Yamaha suddenly quit selling Merc their 4-stroke engines. Either way, you could say Merc stabbed Yamaha in the back, so to speak. I think it will cost Merc in the long run as Yamaha has very deep pockets, big R&D, and smart marketing.<br /><br />Nick, ask yourself why this came about now. Did the Japanese outboard makers just suddenly start doing this supposed "dumping"? No. Mercury's timing on this has a purpose. The recent change at OMC/Bombardier makes Merc the only U.S. manufacturer. So obviously they are the only one's who will benefit. Yamaha (Japan) has been the target because they are taking over Merc's market here in the U.S.<br /><br />Do you honestly think the big corporate Merc guys care about Billy Bob's job? Merc's not doing this because of "American jobs". They are doing it for profit gain. And why did Merc chose China...the cheapest labor of all countries? Bombardier, Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, etc., all seem to be able to get sufficiently priced labor without manufacturing in China.<br /><br />If Merc wanted to make me a "proud American", they would quit whining and pulling punches, and instead start making a competitive, quality product.<br /><br />I have a feeling that Merc's going to learn the hard way. Because increasing the other brand's cost isn't going to move anymore outboards for them. Only a better product will move more outboards (and the Verado ain't it). Consumers have already showed that they are willing to pay more for the Japanese outboards, and they are still closing in on Merc. So I just don't see Merc winning on this one. Consumers will certainly lose out, as only our government will benefit from the increased tax.<br /><br />Bill in IN, I don't really see how increasing the import tax will make prices drop and quality go up? I see either prices increasing to make up for the tax, or more corners being cut to maintain the current level of pricing. If Merc can sell their outboards cheaper than the Japanese manufacturers, then they will raise their prices competitively and make more profit.

 

[gss036]

Re: What's the sales #'s

If you are not familiar with the FREE TRADE act, you should be. Any product manufactured in Mexico and Canada are not subject to duty and vise versa.So this will not have any affect on Bombardier and engines made in Canada.<br />Mercury has always priced thier engines cheaper in Canada then USA.<br />It really doesn't matter to me as I will not even consider a Verado for replacement power. They are just too costly and too complicated. About the only thing a lay person could do is add oil and gas. Thier high end fuel consumption is very comparrible to the other big 4 strokers and HD 2 strokes.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: What's the sales #'s

Yamaha did raise the prices on motors and components they sell to Merc. And Merc increased their orders. <br /><br />Its also interesting to note that Merc targeted Japanese motors. Merc is building an assembly plant in China. <br /><br />Hummmm..........

 

[DJ]

Re: What's the sales #'s

I know it's popular to think that all Japanese companies are benevolant and wonderful and all American Corp's. are evil.<br /><br />But, let's not forget that OMC sued Yamaha, in the early eighties, and won. It seems that Yamaha had blantantly ignored over 80 OMC patents.<br /><br />Some of the Yamaha parts were obvious copies of OMC, not to mention designs.

 

[Forktail]

Re: What's the sales #'s

DJ, I think you're imagining things. Nobody is saying Japanese companies are benevolent or American companies are evil.<br /><br />The point is that Merc seems to be spending a lot of effort worrying about what price the Japanese companies are selling their outboards here in America for, rather than focusing their efforts on building a better, more competitive product. If Merc has a good product, then what do they care about the other's pricing? <br /><br />Come on, Merc was buying these "dumped" engines from Yamaha the whole time. They didn't say anything. It's only now, when they've become the only U.S. manufacturer and the Japanese competition is over-running them, that they cry foul play. It's only now when they are faultering and losing market share.<br /><br />Remember when the Japanese auto makers (Datsun, Honda, Toyota) started introducing automobiles that the U.S. consumer wanted? The U.S. lost some huge market share. So the U.S. manufacturer's answered with cheaper Vega's, Pinto's, Gremlins, and Chevettes. U.S. auto makers soon realized that Americans were still buying the Japanese autos, and in fact, favored them even though they were more expensive. So sooner or later the U.S. auto makers decided (or were forced) to make a better quality product. Then the U.S. auto industry started to pick back up again. Thus we have better quality U.S. autos today.<br /><br />In some sense, Mercury is pushing away the same manufacturers that would competively force them to make a better product. It's a cop-out, and it benefits the American consumer in no way. <br /><br />BTW, competing companies sue each other back and forth over patents all the time. It's nothing new.