What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hull?

[Restoration man]

My 1989 searay looks like its stingers are pre glassed up on the work bencj and then glued in with car bodywork type filler /bondo? Is this the way it's done in the factory? If so where can I get this product from the uk? Also Do I need to use this glue or coud I jus glass the stingers in place ? And do away with this product ? What does it do anyway?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

It is prolly just Thickened Resin, what we call here on the Forum "Peanut Butter". It's a Mixture of Resin, Cabosil, and 1/4" Chopped Milled Fibers. Not sure of the availability of those products in the UK but that's what you would use to make the stuff and it is needed to bed the stringer in. The old stuff need to be ground out and new put back in.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

resto man the stringers never realy fit correctly as they have to touch 100% of the way or you will get a hard spot where the force between the stringer and the hull is concentrated on a spot causing it to break. so most people set the stringer with a small gap then pb the stringer so its a perfect fit with no hard spots. the pb also gives a nice radius that makes fiberglassing the stringer to the boat easier as right angles are a pain to get the glass into.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Use the links in WoodOnGlass' signature line. It's got a graphic for stringer put back....

Elevate the stringer a 1/4" to PREVENT a hard point load along the bottom of the stringer. That way there is no actual contact w/ the hull, then 'bed' the stringer in the PB WOG mentioned. Also use the PB to create the fillet as shown in WOG's graphic...

An inside 90* corner is a weak joint, if you can even get it glassed w/ no air bubbles or voids. The fillet spreads the load out & across the surface of the hull & stringer instead of the corner joint having to carry the load. The fillet does make it easier to tab the stringers & layup multiple layers of fiberglass & resin.

 

[Restoration man]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Am I correct it saying that when the boat was made in the factory


a)the stringers were glassed up on the work bench ( with a VERY thin layer of glass on them

B) and then just glued into place with PB and poss a little bit of tabbing in ,where they thought some water might come like under the engine or where people might see it just to make it look a little bit better , and the rest well if you can't see it then it does not matter just glue them in with no tabbing ,attitude as it will save a dollar or 2


? Because that is how it looks on my boat ,


Now from what I've read her I assume that the best way to fit the stringers (in a nut shell) is


a) cut the stringers so they fit as good as I can get them and dry fit to boat

b) glue the totally dry "raw wood" stringers in with this homemade stuff you lot call peanut butter and form a nice radius with the excess PB

c) then encapsulate the whole stringer and about 4" either side of the stringer with a combination of glass fibre resin and matting

d) flow cote the wet area's ie under engine and anyware that's going to get wet?

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

yes its shocking that the original way they built boats seemed to have so many flaws but it did last 20 years so it wasnt that bad realy. depending on your budget and what materials you plan to use there are a few options for putting the stringers in. the best was is to folow woodonglass but that way requires a covered area to work in due to the ammount of layers that have to be applied preferable wet on wet. once installed theres no way water will get in the stringers so the paint is realy there as a petrol/sun/cemical barrier that should last 40 years. so the next step is what materials do you plan on using because we are presumming that you are using poly resin?

 

[Restoration man]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

yes its shocking that the original way they built boats seemed to have so many flaws but it did last 20 years so it wasnt that bad realy. depending on your budget and what materials you plan to use there are a few options for putting the stringers in. the best was is to folow woodonglass but that way requires a covered area to work in due to the ammount of layers that have to be applied preferable wet on wet. once installed theres no way water will get in the stringers so the paint is realy there as a petrol/sun/cemical barrier that should last 40 years. so the next step is what materials do you plan on using because we are presumming that you are using poly resin?

I've just looked at woodonglass the way he does it that looks good,

is that the same way fisco boater did it on his searay ?

My boat is a cuddy cabin with a proper camper cover so I can work in the boat easily even if it rains so I think I could do it the wood on glass way what do you think ?

What's the other option then apart from the woodononglass way?

Also not thought to much on what type of resin. To use yet

Wanted to try to work out best way to do jobs befor I rip the boat apart to much
I

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Frisco used similar if not the same process as WOG shows in his details

US Composites, in Florida, is a widely used retailer of the resin & cloth that you'll need. There are other vendors. HazMat shipping of the resin can be costly. A little more upfront cost from a closer or local vendor may end up costing less in the end w/ no or lower shipping.

Here is a brief fiberglassing guide that you can read through. It's a free download. Read threads that have already done the demo & put back, they will have many many questions & answers that will help you get started & through the process....

Don's how to's at the top of the Resto forum homepage has good links & threads...

 

[Restoration man]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Frisco used similar if not the same process as WOG shows in his details

US Composites, in Florida, is a widely used retailer of the resin & cloth that you'll need. There are other vendors. HazMat shipping of the resin can be costly. A little more upfront cost from a closer or local vendor may end up costing less in the end w/ no or lower shipping.

Here is a brief fiberglassing guide that you can read through. It's a free download. Read threads that have already done the demo & put back, they will have many many questions & answers that will help you get started &
Don's how to'sH at the top of the Resto forum homepage has good links & threads...

Thanks for the IMfo I live in the uk so will have to find the uk equivalent for the materials needed

 

[Restoration man]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Also on another note the stringers have been stapled together at the factory


should I re do it this way ?

Or should I screw it together with Stainless screws ?

or just use normal galvanised screws ?

or poss use brass screws ?

or use anything I've got hanging around but remove them when ive glued the stringers together ?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

UK makes it tricky to recommend products

PL Premium, it's like Liquid Nails but better. TiteBond III (3) is a water based glue that is waterproof once it cures. Or, are you familiar w/ Gorilla Polyurethane glue? You'll want to make sure that you secure the 2pcs of stringer together very well. I'd use any of these products & clamps to glue them together, rather then staples or screws.

Are the stringers longer then 8' per? Or wider (thicker) then 3/4" in total width?

It actually just occurred to me that you might mean to attach stringers to each other or the bulkheads as they intersect one another when you install them into the hull.

Plywood will draw the 1st coat of polyester resin and away from the 1st layer of fiberglass cloth. The cloth will also do that, starving the plywood, resin, fiberglass bond to be weaker. So yes, generally speaking, most folks do apply resin & fiberglass to the stringers 1st, prior to installing them. You'll roll resin out onto the stringers, allow it to slightly tack off & then apply more resin & a layer of 1.5oz CSM (here that's Chopped Strand Mat) to all edges & sides of the stringer. This way it's sealed prior to install & the subsequent layers of resin & cloth make it more so. If you run some finish nails or drywall screws thru a board, you create some pin points to lift the stringers off your work surface & allow you to coat both sides & all the edges in just about 1 work session. When working with resin & cloth, you can do multiple layers 1 right after the other, wet on wet. Be mindful of the fact that multiple layers speed up the curing process, this generates heat. And you don't want to speed cure/cook the resin either, that makes it brittle. Until you have mixed & used some resin & cloth, some of that may be unclear, and you will use more resin & more cloth then you expect until you get very familiar with it & how much, how fast you can work with it.

And temperature of the surface to be fiberglassed, air temperature, humidity, the temperature of the resin, and the percentage rate of MEKP (the catalyst) added into the resin, all change the speed at which the resin kicks off & cures. Before starting to mix resin & MEKP, you can slow the cure by keeping the resin refrigerated/cold until needed, when it's hot outside. And using space heaters to warm the surfaces to be glassed and keeping the resin inside or warm will speed up the cure when it's cold outside. Just be very careful , as resin & acetone are flammable.

Watching Friscoboaters YouTube & iboats thread videos helped me understand it a great deal.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

I assume you are saying the stringers are made from multiple layers of plywood being that are stuck together with staples. You can use just about anything to bond the pieces together, when you glass over the stringers everything will be tied together and held in place.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

So yes, generally speaking, most folks do apply resin & fiberglass to the stringers 1st, prior to installing them.

Good info, my only comment is on this part.

Most people don't do it this way, some on this site do it this way though. It really makes little difference whether you glass them before you install them or after, except that it adds a great deal of time and mess to glass them first.

The reason is, since you need to glass over them again once they are in the boat, you are doing everything twice and it results in little or no benefit.

When working on larger craft where stringers and bulkheads can be very large, then preglassing may be easier, but on small boats you don't gain anything by doing it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Thanks, Ondarvr. Here @ iBoats would be the only generally speaking, most people I meant. Probably should have said some

I figured it was mostly to make it easier to get 'good' (better?) coverage on the edge 'grain' and to reduce the likelihood of starving the glass/ply/resin bond in the boat where the stringers & transom plywood needing resin are vertical faces..

 

[Restoration man]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

When talking about screwing wood together I ment fixing the stringers to the ribs

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Thanks, Ondarvr. Here @ iBoats would be the only generally speaking, most people I meant. Probably should have said some

I figured it was mostly to make it easier to get 'good' (better?) coverage on the edge 'grain' and to reduce the likelihood of starving the glass/ply/resin bond in the boat where the stringers & transom plywood needing resin are vertical faces..

Prep is KEY .. Preglassing your stringers can be a Major benifit when using low cost materials ( Ply ).

It helps in the lam stage if you pre-glass your stringers/bulks/stifferners.

Hate to have them bubbles come back and bite you in the layup stage... .. .. ..

Prep is the most important part of your build !

If your gonna layup glass..make sure your subtrate can handle a suction cup .. if it does not do this then your NOT ready to layup. .. Period ..

Trust Ol' YD.

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

I figured it was mostly to make it easier to get 'good' (better?) coverage on the edge 'grain' and to reduce the likelihood of starving the glass/ply/resin bond in the boat where the stringers & transom plywood needing resin are vertical faces..

There may be a bit of confusion on some of the steps involved.

Pre glassing the entire stringer before installing it takes time, but resin coating the wood before applying glass is a different step and needs to be done in either process. Resin coating the wood prior to lamination is rarely done on production boats, they don’t have the time to wait for a thin layer of resin to cure before applying the glass.

With the type of resin that is used more frequently now, leaving any resin or glassed surface for very long can compromise the bond of the next layer. So unless more layers of glass are applied in a day or so the entire surface needs to be sanded before more glass can be applied.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

When talking about screwing wood together I ment fixing the stringers to the ribs

If I understand your question, you have a fiberglass boat w/ stringers running bow to stern that you want to attach ribs that will run port to starboard across the top of the stringers. This can be done w/ thickened resin (usually referred to as PB(peanut butter).

Look up oops' hull extension thread, there's an index that will direct you to a recipe for PB. There are others, Friscoboater's resto thread &/or youtube channel has the recipe that he used. I think he may refer to it as 'pookie' (sp?)

Sorry that no one has yet answered your question. Surprised that YD & ondrvr didn't...

Pix of what you're working with/on would also be helpful.... Use photobucket, that way you can post the pix directly into your thread:

Sam's divorce settlement for half the boat sounded like a good idea on paper:facepalm:

 

[Restoration man]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

If I understand your question, you have a fiberglass boat w/ stringers running bow to stern that you want to attach ribs that will run port to starboard across the top of the stringers. This can be done w/ thickened resin (usually referred to as PB(peanut butter).

Look up oops' hull extension thread, there's an index that will direct you to a recipe for PB. There are others, Friscoboater's resto thread &/or youtube channel has the recipe that he used. I think he may refer to it as 'pookie' (sp?)

Sorry that no one has yet answered your question. Surprised that YD & ondrvr didn't...

Pix of what you're working with/on would also be helpful.... Use photobucket, that way you can post the pix directly into your thread:

Sam's divorce settlement for half the boat sounded like a good idea on paper:facepalm:

Hi thanks. For all The IMfo guys , I might be getting my words a bit mixed I do have Stringers running from bow to stern the as for the ribs I think the words I should have used were bulk heads instead of ribs, these need to be attached to the stringers , my thinking is now to either pre glass the bulk heads or the stringers or both ,so if any water does ever find its way into the bulkheads ( by a crack or something I hope it won't but you never know) it won't be able to soak into the stringers and ruin the stringers again , same for the transome ( not 100 % sure if the transome is ok will not know tilll mtor is out, but if i fully glassed up the transome befor fitting the ribs rot should not transfer from one to the other ?as on my boats it's far easier to replace the bulkheads than it is to replace the stringers again , what do you think ? Also i would NOT screw the ribs to the bulkhead so i did not compromise the seal between the two ,Im not at the re building stage yet but i want to try to work out my plan of attack for when the time comes ,When I have finished the strip out im going to start a resto thread with pictures the boat is a 23 foot 1989 searay cuddy cabin

 

[ondarvr]

Re: What's this glue type bondo stuff searay have used to fix my stringers to the hul

Don't over think it, just put the transom in and glass it, then put the stringers in and glass them, lastly put in the bulkheads and glass them. They will all be separated this way, rot won't be able to migrate from one component to the next, no need for screws or any thing else.

Whether you glass them before installation or after, if it cracks water will get to the wood, there is no difference.