Which hydrofoil to get?

sunbird 18

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
78
I have a 20' deep V center console with a 225 OX66 Yamaha on the back. Top speed is around 60mph. My other motor that I had on this boat had doel fins on it. This Yamaha does not. I notice a huge difference from not having them. Lowest planing speed is higher now, Planing time is longer, I am looking at the sky when getting out of the hole and swamping the engine and transom well when coming off plane. Didnt do any of this with the fins on. I want to put a hydrofoil on it and would appriciate some advice about which hydrofoil works the best. I am currently trying to decide between the Stingray XRIII or the Stingray XPII.

Please dont talk about tabs, I dont want them, I have my reasons...:)
Thanks!!!
 

Gary H NC

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
8,972
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

(Please dont talk about tabs, I dont want them, I have my reasons..)

Well,that kind of answers your own question then,,,

Every boat i have put a foil on made it handle like crap.
On that high of horsepower motor no way i would bolt one on.
The last Stingray XP i had i gave it away...
 

slasmith1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
1,028
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Bennett trim tabs fully adjustable at the push of a button for any possible conditions.
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

If you're not going to go with tabs, just leave it the way it is. No way I would put a hydrofoil on that boat.
 

gss036

Commander
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Messages
2,914
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Go to a Power Tech 4 blade stern lifting prop. that should help you out all the way around. Spendy but it works.
 

Nandy

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
2,145
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

The OP just want to hear about hydrofoils so in respect to him I will not go into anything other than hydrofoils.
I had hydrofoil before and had many friends that own them as well. I dont think there is much difference between brands. Stingray seems to be one of the most mention hydrofoils when someone has something good to say about hydrofoil. That was my choice in all of my small motors. Whatever you choose make sure you get them locally in case it makes it worst and you have to return it. The way I see it it is a 50/50... What else was different between the motors? There might be something else other than lack of hydrofoil making your boat behave the way it is now...
 

bhammer

Ensign
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
963
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

I have had three boats, and in each one of them, I have removed the fin and installed those things we are not aloud to talk about. :D

In all seriousness, may I ask what your reasons are?
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

not to insult you, but i think you are nuts. put the proper item on your boat to cure your problem. foils work well on small boats but not bigger ones.
 

garry454

Cadet
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
23
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Hmmm, 20' with all the problems you list.......... I too have had foils.....not a big fan........ I could only suggest Smart t@b$. Will solve your problems, properly, for about $100.

See I didn't say the "t" word. :D
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

I have a 20' deep V center console with a 225 OX66 Yamaha on the back. Top speed is around 60mph. My other motor that I had on this boat had doel fins on it. This Yamaha does not. I notice a huge difference from not having them. Lowest planing speed is higher now, Planing time is longer, I am looking at the sky when getting out of the hole and swamping the engine and transom well when coming off plane. Didnt do any of this with the fins on. I want to put a hydrofoil on it and would appriciate some advice about which hydrofoil works the best. I am currently trying to decide between the Stingray XRIII or the Stingray XPII.

Please dont talk about tabs, I dont want them, I have my reasons...:)
Thanks!!!

Sounds to me as if you were relying on the Dole Fin to do the work of the outboards Tilt/Trim system. Are you using the Yamaha's trim properly (ie trim in on takeoff, trim out a bit when up on plane)?
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

I have had good results with SE Sport 300s on boats under 18' and engines under 100HP.

I don't think a hydrofoil is a good bet on boats/engines as big as yours. Far too much stress on the AV plate.

I question your technique in using your PT&T.
 

sunbird 18

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
78
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Bennett trim tabs fully adjustable at the push of a button for any possible conditions.

I agree, however they are expensive and I hate having to mess with 3 trim buttons, one on the throttle and 2 on the dash. I do alot of stop and go fishing, so it becomes tedious to always have to adjust them every time you come off plane or want to get out of the hole, or when a big wake comes by, or when you are cruising and then want to go WOT. Constant adjustment of the tabs and the trim is tedious.

What else was different between the motors? There might be something else other than lack of hydrofoil making your boat behave the way it is now...

There is a difference.....Then=1998 Evinrude 150+doel fins+19P aluminum prop, 405lbs..... Now=2001 Yamaha OX66 225 + V-Max 23P prop=500lbs. My boat has a 8.5' beam and weighs about 2500 lbs loaded up so the extra 100# in the back shouldnt make that much of a difference. Static water line difference at the transom is negligible. Since this prop is Yamaha's high performance, high rake, bow lifting prop, I wonder if the bow lifting attribute is causing my problem. I'll try a different prop this week and see if there is any difference.

In all seriousness, may I ask what your reasons are?

They are expensive and my other fins seemed to work well. I dont want smart tabs because I do not like how they are always plowing the bow down. I know that some boats can benefit from this, but not mine, Push the bow down and you lose speed. I still have to trim up to get above 45mph as is right now. Having Smart tabs would require me to have to trim even higher and aim my thrust cone more towards the surface of the water thereby changing my thrust angle to a less efficient one which means less top speed. There is a tradeoff to that depending on the boat, where the thrust angle is not optimal, but due to the constant stern lift created by the smart tabs and the engine trimmed way up, there is less hull in the water so the effect of less drag is greater which means higher top speed. Smart tabs move up and deflect as you go through chop and wake allowing the hull to pitch and yaw, whereas the HF will remain at the same angle, not flex and will therefore aid in keeping the boat at the same angle through the waves. The HF will provide addtional lift when taking off allowing the boat to plane at lower speeds. When at speed and trimmed down with the HF, it reall plows which is good for certain chop and wake conditions. When you trim the engine to neutral, the HF helps to hold the boat at the same angle which provides a smooth stable ride. HF is supposed to be at the surface or just out of the water at WOT, so top speed is not compromised. Something that neither smart tabs or actuated tabs can do is to actually lift the bow. When going through the Sebastian inlet here in FL, there are usually stationary 4-8ft white water rapids through there when the tide is going out with an onshore wind. Pretty exciting place, one of the most dangerous inlets in the US. Best way to get through these waves without taking a wave over the bow is to go slow on plane with the bow high and have enough balls to climb these waves when needed. With the HF you can keep a low planing speed and trim the motor up high so it forces the bow way up in the air so that the bow doesnt peirce through these steep faced waves. So I get smoother, more level ride through the chop, better holeshot, lower planing speed, more level accel and decel, ability to really plow the bow down AND the ability to raise it up high when needed, only one button controls all this (not 3).

Smart tabs cant do all of this. Actuated tabs can do most of this, but they are such a pain to always be adjusting and thay are literally 20x more expensive.

Are you using the Yamaha's trim properly (ie trim in on takeoff, trim out a bit when up on plane)?


I question your technique in using your PT&T.

Been boating my whole life, actually get paid to drive boats while testing outboards for a living. Pretty much got the hang of the trim button by now.;)

I dont like how smart tabs have a fixed amount of pressure on the tabs and you cant dynamically tune them on the go, actuated tabs are expensive and tedious to constantly tune for the perfect ride, especially in constantly varying water and speed conditions.
HFs have their disadvantages, but they do have their advantages for sure. They work for some boats, on some boats they are horrible. If a HF sucks on my boat, it is coming off, but my last one worked great. That is why I am trying to get some feedback as to what foil uses the best design that provides the best performance.:D
 

sleeper

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
86
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Smart tabs don't negate the trim of the motor, it still works to raise and lower the bow just fine. I can still raise my bow when I need to, and lower it likewise. Smart tabs made such a dramatic change on my boat I could not go back. Foils work on some boats, I would not put one on a boat your size... I bet 60mph with a foil on a boat your size will chine walk like crazy. Smart tabs don't need to be dynamically tuned, they tune themselves. Once you get them set up just right they are amazing.

Sorry, I could not resist talking about tabs. Most people don't know what their boat is capable of until they have a set.
 

BWR1953

Admiral
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
6,278
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Sunbird, that was a VERY well thought out and communicated reply. Good on ya!

Personally, I'd go with the XPII because it is larger and will give more lift as a result.
 

Action

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
85
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

I had a hydrofoil on a 14' runabout with a 50hp, it handled like a death trap after i installed so I took it off right away. I think you are better off with the tabs as well.
 

kg5388

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
76
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

I got one on the 88 venture bass boat with a 150 mariner and it's been on since it was new according to the original owner.
It launches out of the hole almost level and shoots across the water my buddies Ranger points at the sky when you hit it hard. I can plane down at slower speeds than He can and don't have to worry bout taking the wake over the stern.

The only bad thing I can say about the foil is at 60 mph or above you have to turn very wide.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Sunbird;

I was not going to add to this thread but given the misconceptions that you have about Smart Tabs and how they work, I realy need to address this.

If you have had first hand experience with our product then what you have said indicates that the Tabs were either adjusted incorrectly, or the wrong set was installed.

If you have not had first hand experience then I can understand your statements and compliment you on your assumptions. However logical, they are not correct. Frankly if they were correct we would have been out of business years ago.

Since you are inquiring about hydrofoils this is not the place to post our technical and performance information.

I invite you to call me so that I can personally explain the ssystem and what you should expect from a performance viewpoint ( 800-233-0194 ).

You obviously do your best to think things through and I would like to provide you with more things to think about.
 

sunbird 18

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
78
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Installed the stingray XPII Hydrofoil. Does EVERYTHING I need it to. No bow rise, low planing speed, same top speed, good stability, etc, etc....
I am 100% satisfied. No ill effects what-so-ever!:D
 

BWR1953

Admiral
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
6,278
Re: Which hydrofoil to get?

Installed the stingray XPII Hydrofoil. Does EVERYTHING I need it to. No bow rise, low planing speed, same top speed, good stability, etc, etc....
I am 100% satisfied. No ill effects what-so-ever!:D

Excellent! Now we need pix and video of that bad boy in action! :D
 
Top