who here knows cars too

[miloman]

who here knows about cars got a 98 mercury sable 3.0L I was down 1 1/2 liter of oil the engine light when on it stalled when I had it boasted had a real bad knock....The mechanic tried to turn the crank case over with what seemed like a bolt just under the altornator and said it has siezed he couldnt turn it does this sound right

 

[snapperbait]

Re: who here knows cars too

Well Miloman, down 11/2 litres, real bad knock, that don't sound good... Thats got to be about 11/2 quarts or more(I think) for us U.S.A.-non-metric fellas...<br /><br />FYI: <br /> Ford 3.0 OHV engine's oil capacity is 4.5 quarts including filter..<br />Ford 3.0 DOHC engine's oil capacity is 5.5 quarts including filter..<br /><br /> If the mechanic tried to turn the crank with the spark plugs in, then it probably won't or would be VERY difficult to turn, but if he pulled them out and it won't turn then it's most likely spun a bearing or two do to oil starvation... I see a Major overhaul or new engine in your future...

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: who here knows cars too

Bad Knock, Low on oil and stalled assuming you had to have it towed in my first instinct is something froze, blew or otherwise got mangled due to lack of oil which causes extreme heat from friction. Even if you got it to run well enough to make it to a mechanic it still may have high dollar problems. The only thing as bad as running one when it is low on oil is running one w/o enough or any water in it. Putting it on boating terms it's like running an outboard w/o mixing the oil in the gas it does not take long before something breaks.

 

[miloman]

Re: who here knows cars too

no he didnt take out the plugs at all

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: who here knows cars too

miloman, put a socket and breaker bar on the bolt/nut that holds the harmonic balancer on and see if you can turn it. If not, it is locked up and it will need to be torn down or replaced with another engine.<br />I would say it is hurt regardless so you are looking at a rebuild to be safe or another engine to be sure.

 

[Moose_Miller]

Re: who here knows cars too

1.5 liters converts to 1.585 quarts. I know that being a quart and a half low on oil aint good for the internals, but is it enough of a defecit to cause a motor to seize? We've all been "a quart low" at some time or another... doesn't mean we had to put a new motor in. The knocking, the seized crank - it looks grim, my friend. These newer engines work in a way that isn't as familiar to me as the "good old days". I had an '82 S-10 2.8L V6 many years ago that leaked oil like nobodys business. When she'd start knocking(which was once a month or better), I'd pull over and put 3 quarts in her... drove it like that for 2 years and never had a problem with the motor failing. Your best bet would be to get a mechanic that will fix the PROBLEM - whether it be a spun bearing, etc., rather than to put a new motor in. Another option would be salvage yard motor - I did a search on a nearby salvage yard here and they made 3 diferent 3.0's for that year Sable... they range in price from 645.00 to 920.00 depending on the model and mileage. www.lemsauto.com <--- nice parts search engine there

 

[SlowlySinking]

Re: who here knows cars too

miloman, something doesn't sound right, if it stalled and now has a knock from lack of oil I would have expected some type of engine noise BEFORE it stalled. When you say stalled, how fast were you going when it stalled? Are you certain it's a crankshaft knock and not something else? For example, I bought a Taurus a year ago that stalled when the owner turned into his driveway, the engine just wouldn't turn over fast enough to start, he replaced the battery, cables, and starter, then thinking the engine was ruined sold it cheap. Turned out that the alternator bearing seized without any warning, the seized bearing stalled the engine and prevented it from starting, I removed the fan belt and it started. My point is, check everything before you replace the $$$engine, ya never know. Good luck.

 

[SCO]

Re: who here knows cars too

He was trying to turn the crankshaft to see if it was seized. I imagine it wouldn't crank. Sounds like your mechanic is right on. I replaced an engine with a used one once.The upper camshaft seized because oil starved maybe because I was using non sg rated cheap convenience store oil. The lower oil pump gunked up. I wasn't a 3000 mile oil changer back then . I got lucky, but you don't know what youre getting. They tell you the mileage of the car it came from, but who knows. Did that job myself(first and last time), built my own engine puller though a good shade tree, block and tackle would have worked. I also replaced Wife's automatic transmission with used and had good result. Our mechanic found the transmission through the salvage network thing, replaced it within 2 days after bringing it in for a whole lot less than I was expecting to have to pay, some 6 or 700 total. After you verify the engine is toast, you can replace with new engine from Ford, or Salvage engine, or rebuild. I'd ask the mechanic about the prices of those options. Keep the thread going and let us know how it develops and the estimates you get. BTW whats the mileage and condition of the car?

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: who here knows cars too

Moose said<br /><br />"We've all been "a quart low" at some time or another."<br /><br />From what I see, you're ALWAYS a quart low or so........<br /><br />But I agree. I've driven motors low on oil before and, while I don't recommend it, I doubt it's anything that serious. I do some more looking or find a good mechanic before thinking about an engine swap.<br /><br />I wonder. With a car that new, anyone know if it shuts off when the oil light comes on? They've been doing weird stuff to cars lately and it would not surpirse me if it shut shut off cause it was supposed to.

 

[Beaux]

Re: who here knows cars too

What hapens when you try and start the motor with the ignition system? Does the starter spin or does it do nothing? I assume that it did nothing and that is why mechanic tried to spin it manually to check for frozen engine. <br />Did you say the engine light came on or the low oil pressure light? The stall,etc. may have nothing to do with the oil level as I agree that most engines have run on a lot less oil and had no major problems. <br />First, try and turn over manually with the plugs out(takes compression away from pistons so its easier to turn over), if it turns over, then we know its not frozen up. That disconnection of the belts is a great tip as well, I would have never thought about that. Do that before trying to turn it over. You cant hurt anything by giving it a try...as you write it, sounds like the mechanic wants to replace the engine anyway, so give it a shot. Good luck

 

[ob]

Re: who here knows cars too

Miloman,Slowlysinking makes good point.Insure all of the driven components pulleys are freely turning after belts are removed.This will surely isolate the crankshaft or pistons being the siezure source.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: who here knows cars too

Yea miloman and with any luck it will have a serpentine belt and it comes off easy.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: who here knows cars too

FORD = fix or repair daily <br />inherited a '87 taurus 5 yrs ago from wife's<br />granny with less than 30K mi. california car,<br />cherry... "car of the year"<br />cept, I put 3 trannys in in 2 yrs.<br />(less than 20K mi.)<br />it's the first/only/last ford in my life..<br />that 4 banger always ran though...

 

[snapperbait]

Re: who here knows cars too

C cheap<br />H heap<br />E every<br />V valve<br />R rusty<br />O oil<br />L leaks<br />E every<br />T time <br /><br />Yes, I'm a "Chevy" guy... <br />89' C-1500 with 280K miles, Dropped 5" in front, 7" out back... Did I mention that I HATE speed bumps?... <br /><br />Three engines so far, blew up two 700R4 trans, then I got smart and installed a TH350 junkyard trans... 60K miles and the "junkyard" trans is still going strong... No overdrive, all the "go fast goodies", about 300HP at the rear wheels, I get 14mpg on the highway, motor screams about 3200 RPM at 75mph...<br /><br />I would'nt have it any other way... Well, maybe with a blower & a lil' squirt of nitrous too... Hummmm...

 

[MGuckin]

Re: who here knows cars too

It makes no sense that a motor would seize when down about 30% on oil. Especially when it is a "worn in motor". Alot of bearing slop has to expand before it would seize.<br />You have gotten alot of good advise here.<br />Disconnect your battery before doing anything.<br />Strip the motor of all loads and try to turn by hand using a socket on the harmonic balancer pulley. That motor should have a serpentine belt. You might want to draw yourself a little sketch for the layout if you have never done it before. Should be a spring loaded tensioner which usually don't want to release when you push down on it. Try a flat bar as leverage.<br />If the motor turns, remove your valve cover and visually check everything. Look for anything loose. It will be obvious.<br />Post back with your results.<br />Hey snapperbait...... only 300?<br />I got 323 hp in my 81 f150 at the wheels.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: who here knows cars too

Miloman, Sounds like Slowlysinking has it. Have known 2 different occasions that this has happened. My friend bought a 98 model for 500 bucks because the guy said it was siezed. Was the alternator and now the previous owner is wanting his car back. This was even after another experienced mechanic confirmed that the motor was siezed. <br /><br />Oil being that low should't have caused internal damage. With you saying that the light came on and it died tells me it was your alternator stopped turning causing your engine to bog down and quit. That is why your dash lights came on.<br /><br />Try this first before changing the motor.

 

[miloman]

Re: who here knows cars too

hey there this is all GREAT ADVICE thanks<br />Didnt talk to him today but first thing Monday I will mention all that was said. 2 weeks ago my father in law said that it would not start at all let it sit for 15 minutes then it started. When this problem occured I opened up the fill for oil and there was some smoke coming out not a lot when I added the oil it stopped. Also it would not turn over but when I boosted it it did turn over and start that is when I noticed the knocking. At idle it seemed to be fine except the knock when I gave it gas it stalled and have not started it since the guy tried to turn it at a connection below the alternator. and it didnt turn the plugs were in He connected a battery to the starter and it did spin so it seemed fine. So what suggestions do I put to him Monday morning as to things to check out before new motor etc... I reall y thank you guys for the help.

 

[ob]

Re: who here knows cars too

Have the mechanic start with a compression test since it will turn over.If there's a knock in it you'll have to go from there if compression looks fine.Depending on what is diagnosed as the knocking source,drop the oil pan and inspect con and main bearings ,pull the valve covers,etc....

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: who here knows cars too

Just because it was not down a lot on oil does not mean that it was not starved for oil.<br />The oil pump screen could have got clogged up and was not picking up enough oil to sustain the motor.<br />If it don't pick up enough oil, it will not show much oil pressure either, hence turning the oil light on and locking up.<br />And then after the motor and internal parts cooled off, it again turn over and started, but with a knock as in something getting hot and stretched and as soon as the gas was applied, it quit again.<br />My best guess without seeing the motor is rod bearing has spun.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: who here knows cars too

If it's any consolation, it's a lot cheaper to repair an engine that has been run out of oil then it is one run out of coolant.