why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

[SKIBUM1M]

I have a 1966 60hp johnson and was working on the distributer and found that under the plate with the points and condensor there are magnets and windings. there are no wires to them and i see no purpose for them. why are they there? what do they do? are they left over from a previous design?

 

[ryendube]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

I have a 1966 60hp johnson and was working on the distributer and found that under the plate with the points and condensor there are magnets and windings. there are no wires to them and i see no purpose for them. why are they there? what do they do? are they left over from a previous design?

where does your ignition system get power from......

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

power comes from the 12 volt marine battery.

 

[ryendube]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

power comes from the 12 volt marine battery.

really eh? unplug the battery and tell me if she still runs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_(electrical)

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

ok mine would still run since i have modified it but so i understand the way it was designed was the wire that came out of the distributer and went to the harness for a tach? I think mine had voltage coming in which would explain why i burned up the coil.

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

got a new coil today and installed it. now it wont start as easily and it wont stay running. a 12 volt coil makes a much hotter spark do i need to start over on adjusting my carb?

 

[jonesg]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Put those tools down, put your hands in the air and back away from the engine.

Now get a service manual and have a good read before you bleep this thing up.
www.outboardbooks.com

 

["G"]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

It's a good idea to get a manual and read the how to and reasoning aspects of your motor. Reading following and understanding your motor is a great idea.

Understanding the basics of magneto ignition need not come from your manual. Todays engines are electronically "switched" but the concept is really no different. You need an electrical source to ignite the plug. In your 66 engine that's the magneto. The electronic impulses come from a magnet passing by a magnetic core. In the new electronic models the DC power comes from the battery but the power from the battery is "supercharged" with the same technology... a magnet passing by a core (in this case it's called a stator). It's how your alternator works, starter works and many other motors around your house work.
Read up on that theory and become knowledgeable on how your motor makes spark.

 

[ryendube]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

heres a cool lil animation

http://www.undaerospace.com/cbt_files/virtualengine/Magneto/Virtual Engine.swf


umm straight forward would be

magnet and windings transfer magnetic flux producing current

points are the switch to transfer that current to the coils

the lil cam on the rotor is what triggers the points ie that is your timing

when points are closed primary winding is charging, inducing voltage to the secondary.

when points open the current is cut off from coil collapsing the magnetic field.
voltage sky rockets (proportional to change in current) to try to maintain current

voltage gets high enough to jump spark gap and BOOM you have ignition.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Hey "G", your description of outboard ignition systems is incomplete. Some of those old OMCV4s had battery-coil ignitions like a 60s auto. Some had magneto ignitions with two magnets, two set of points, a single coil and a single condenser. If the plug wires came out of the side of the distributor cap, the motor was battery-coil. Magneto ignitions had the plug wires exit the top of the cap.

There were some battery powered Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) units used to replace magneto and battery-coil ignitions.

Later model motors had (and have) alternator-driven CDI ignition. These work (rough description) by transforming the AC from the stator into a higher AC voltage, rectifing it to DC, storing it in some compacitors, and then firing the ignition coil when the silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) signal the capaciters to fire.

I am not sure what you meant by "supercharged".

 

[samo_ott]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Phew... now I know why I stick to 2 cylinder engines... everything's under the flywheel

 

[CharlieB]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

In either case, the wire coming OUT of your distributor is the 'Ground-to-Kill' wire, touching this off on a 12 V source is SURE to smoke some expensive parts. The coils is NOT your standard automotive coil, is 'was' matched to the voltage and current produced by your magneto. Hope that it's still available, or you'll be calling Sea-way Marine in Seattle and paying whatever he wants for another one, IF, he even has it.

I've got a '62' J85, belt driven mag, belt driven generator. Someday that boat is going to have a floor, seats, and see the water again.

 

[ryendube]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

being schooled in electronics all this misuse of electrical terms drives me nuts but hey im sure its viceversa for me on alot of the outboard terms transforming supercharging fire

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

thank you everyone for all the help. I know automotive ignition systems inside and out being a mechanic for 18 years and having an associates in auto tech but 2 strokes are something i have never really delt with so when i didnt have spark and i saw points under the pully i figured i could make it work the way a car does since a new coil was $140. so i bought a 20 dollar 12 volt coil at autozone and wired it the way a car was wired from the battery to the positive primary terminal on the coil. from the necative termanal to the points and condensor. i poped a vent out of the distributer cap and ran a coil wire from the secondary terminal of the coil to the spring inside the cap and it ran. I could only get 19 mph out of it so i beat my head against the wall and finally found a used coil for $40 and put it in. found i had to set the point gap and just took it out on the lake and got 28 mph. I dont really understand why the magneto would make 10 mph difference over a 12 volt coil but hey my motor is running faster than i have ever had it before.

 

[Louisianagames]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Man i remember those days....I had a 80 hp 1966 model and did the same thing..It would not get up and boogie until I replaced the coil..goes to show huh? I changed cap points, timing belt to distributor.(yes timing belt) what a mess i had until Mr Clark from Clarke's Marine told Me how to fix it and gave Me a coil...I was impressed !! and I was a kid at the time lol ...Glad your up and going!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Skibum, I sucessfully converted my Fat-fifty to a battery coil, in much the same way you wanted to do. It does work. I suspect you did not gap one of the sets of points correctly, or the capacitor was incorrect for the battery coil ignition. I used a ford coil and a .25Mic Condenser, which is a matched set.

BTW - I removed the original coil, and drilled thru the distributor cap to expose the brass center connection. I siliconed the HV lead from the coil into the cap, to make the connection. I eventually decided to return to the conventional ignition, when I moved near a OB junkyard, and they had all the parts.

 

["G"]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Hey "G", your description of outboard ignition systems is incomplete. Some of those old OMCV4s had battery-coil ignitions like a 60s auto. Some had magneto ignitions with two magnets, two set of points, a single coil and a single condenser. If the plug wires came out of the side of the distributor cap, the motor was battery-coil. Magneto ignitions had the plug wires exit the top of the cap.

There were some battery powered Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) units used to replace magneto and battery-coil ignitions.

Later model motors had (and have) alternator-driven CDI ignition. These work (rough description) by transforming the AC from the stator into a higher AC voltage, rectifing it to DC, storing it in some compacitors, and then firing the ignition coil when the silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) signal the capaciters to fire.

I am not sure what you meant by "supercharged".

Chris your point is valid except that the number of points or coils does not change the basic function of any given point, coil or plug magneto or electronic part. Yesterdays or todays engines all have magnets, stators, coils and a "trigger" to set the fire order straight. The method of ignition comes from electronic means verses mechanical parts acting as the "switch" (points, rotor, distributor cap verses triggers, CDI and power packs). One requires battery voltage to excite the field, the other does not. Either way the result is similar, the method or transfer of spark changes electronically but not in the basics of ignition.

"Supercharged" referred to the spark to/from the coil. The 60's was about 12000-15000 volts. Todays "HOT" spark is 45000 volts and it jumps a larger gap.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

Hey G, I do not want to start an arguement. I know how most CDI and conventional ignitions work, but was unable to understand your post. I did not think Skibum would understand it either, which is why I specifically described his ignition system. My plan was to give his specific info on his dual point, single condenser, single coil ignition systems.

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

actually i understood all of the primary ignition parts of the system. Just cars have not used magnetos since the modeal a so i didnt know much about the magneto part.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: why are there windings and magnets in my distributer?

A # of piston driven aircraft STILL use a dual-mag ignition.

Magneto voltage continues to rise with rpm, maybe that's why they've always bit me so hard!