Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

boater1234

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Sorry i started this thread and in no way did mean to offend anyone or argue with anyone.I was trying to find out some info.
 

merc850

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

I ran a 1960 Merc 70 for 12 years on 100:1 AMSOIL, it has 140 psi compression and was still running until I retired it 2 yrs. ago (I also ran gear lube). I now have a 1975 Merc 850 and it too is running on A. oil. I don't know about other synthetics but my experience with A. oil has been perfect. The motor was on a 16' boat and turned 5600 rpm at WOT, it was used for skiing, tubing and towing broken down boats. Check the Amsoil website.
 

JB

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

You can run your Merc on anything you wish, boater. It depends on whether you want it to last.

In that case you will run it on what the maker recommends.

Many people who believe they are smarter than the maker end up outsmarting themselves.
 

boater1234

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

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CharlieB

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

Look at it this way, which ratiio gives the wider margin of protection when thens begin to go WRONG?

Granted, full syn oils offer some advantage over dino oils, Merc oil is a blend, which (hopefully) makes for a good combination of both oils.

But when a 100:1 motor begins to go lean from a fueling problem or an over-heat, chances are it will NOT have much time for operator action before a 'lack-of-lube' damage begins, whereas the same motor conditions running a 50:1 of that same oil may give the same operator more time to react, and hopefully save the cost of a totall rebuild.

So which is going to save more in the long run? 100:1 or possible rebuild.
 

boater1234

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

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1nebel0

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

Oil injected motors run at 100/1 at idle and at full throttle comes down to 50/1 at full throttle... I would never run 100/1..We run 40/1 in our Merc V6's for added lubrication at high rpms that we spin. You don't want to run full synthetic in a steel bore motors. Other forums I am on explain this and I don't want to try.. My bridgeport 2.4 liter sleeves are Nickasel and requires full synthectic oil. NOT One of the guys I hang with(all racing V6's Merc's)will run Amsoil as an FYI. We don't blow up motors that cost upwards of $$20,000 Run the synthectic blends that are available in your motor and forget the wild goose chase. I am with JB...to much testing has been done by the manufacturer so why try and invent the wheel. ..
 

jbjennings

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

I read a lot, so here's what I've gathered on the subject:
Changing the oil ratio also changes the effects of the jet size in the carbs, making the motor run richer or leaner according to the change in oil ratio. I would suspect the lower oil ratio would make the motor run a little richer on fuel, but with less lubrication.

Less oil can allow surface rusting on the crank journals and other internal parts, which you already seem to know about. I'm suprised that alone would not change your mind.

I would not run a yamaha at 100:1 regardless of what yamaha says. OMC put 100:1 on their motors for a while, but later reversed that decision; probably because the warranty work on motors ruined by that ratio was more than they could handle.

I'm drinkin' agin 100:1. :)
JBJ
 

boater1234

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

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1nebel0

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

You can't compare a car engine to an outboard..I run full syn in all cars and inboard boats..You missd in my post that all high performance Merc engines to include the Optimax require syn or special oil. In your low h.p. motor you don't want to run Full Syn. This comes from engine builders on a high performance site... Call Jay at JSRE in Texas at 281-576-5088. Comparing oil for a 4 stroke to a 2 stroke is like talking apples and oranges. The E-Tec is nothing like you have again apples to oranges. Outboards are not generic ..........
 

CharlieB

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

Things begin to go WRONG because the 'average' boater fails to religiously maintain his motor.

Fuel deposits, crud/water/alcohol, age parts, restrict fuel flow, the fuel mixture (and oil) leans out, reducing lubrication and raises piston/cyl temps.

Water pump pressure/flow reduces with age/wear, until the 'average' boater notices the reduced 'P' stream or hears the over-heat alarm.

The lack of fanatical religious annual maintenance is reason enough to run the recommended oil mixture (or even a bit more).
 

boater1234

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

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j_martin

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

I whole heartedly agree with you charlie,it's def a lack of people taking care of their motors.On the other hand i def take care of mine like new.Change the plugs once a yr,change the lower unit oil once a yr and the impeller once a yr ,also grease the fittings and your motor will be bulletproof.I also flush my motor everytime whether in salt or freshwater and i also put a anti corrosion lube on it after every time i use it and it looks like factory condition.I use some stuff called sentry fuel treatments also that is just unreal stuff as far as if you get water in your system,i think imo it's the best fuel treatment around and can be found in fl.I also run non ethanol gas as i go to the marina and get it.I do run 50:1 in all my motors,i was just trying to understand why 100:1 can't be ran without hurting it.I will just stick to a 50:1 in all my motors no matter what.I do everything i possiblely can to make sure my motors run right for a long time.

I have never heard that before.That you can't run full synthetic oil in a small outboard that is fully false whoever said that.I have ran full synthetic oil in every small outboard i have ever owned up to 25hp.Plus that is also false about the optimax as they make non synthetic oil for them also.You can run reg walmart super tech in your optimax if you want as there is a ton of people who do so and have no problems.The optimax is no different then the etec and they both can be ran on reg tcw3 oil,would i do that probally not because that is just me.If you read the label on reg walmart tcw3 oil it states on there it can be used for direct injected motors or premix.If i owned a bigger motor again like my 70hp yamaha 2 stroke i would use full synthetic oil in it.When i buy my new 25hp outboard here soon whether it's a new 25hp 2stroke merc or the 25hp etec i will run my own oil and not theirs but it will be full synthetic oil no matter what.Everyone has their opinions on this and to be frank no one is really wrong as you can run whatever oil you choose as it will all work at the right ratio.

Synthetics will not hurt any motor anytime.I ran full synthetics in a brand new 9.8 tohatsu 2stroke for 9yrs and it works just as good as the day i bought it.The compression on both cylinders is perfect.If you were to ask anyone this question they would tell you the same.Very few people i know don't even run the reg tcw3 oil anymore not to say it's bad as i have used walmart super tech oil for many yrs as others have and have never had a problem.I choose to run full synthetic oil for a bunch of reasons,one is it's biodegradable,2 it produces way less smoke,3 it has darn near 0 carbon buildup so you don't have to decarb,4 it protects way better then dino oil.Whether one guy is right or not i will take my chances on always using synthetics in everything i own all the way down to a weed wacker.Until i see one failure due to synthetic oil then it will never change my mind.I have never in my life heard of anyone using small outboards that has had a problem with full synthetic tcw3 oil.Like i said give it a few more yrs and there will be nothing but synthetics in the boat industry.

So your limited experience running small hp engines is the total sum of knowledge available to you. Too bad, because experience is a very expensive teacher.

For instance, many engines that require a period of ring seating never reach their peak potential because a high film strength oil (synthetic) is used before the rings are seated. They run. They don't blow up. They just never get there first.

I run full synth in my XR4 for all the reasons you cite. I run PennZoil, which is as good as Amzoil for the application, and about half the price.

AmZoil makes some wild claims, like you can run it at 100:1 in an engine designed for 50:1 and save money. Engine rebuilders love that one. The fact is that the oil ratio needed is a function of engine design and application. My 1940's Graham Paige 5 HP rototiller engine, if I ran Amzoil in it, would require 16:1, just like it did with when the oil available was straight 30 dino oil. The plugs would last longer, though.

My reasonably high performance chain saws gets Jaso FC or better oil. It isn't cheap, but oil related failures just don't happen. That's the oil the manufacturer requires.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

I can't believe the number of people who are so intent on shooting themselves in the foot. If the manufacturer says run 50:1 they do it for a reason and it's called engine design. Engines have clearances between rotating and reciprocating parts and the chosen set of materials, metal treatments, and parameters dictates lubrication requirements. You cannot compare one manufacturers engine to another in that reqard. Why people want to flirt with recommendations, especially when they have no clue what goes into an engine design is puzzling. The owners manual tells you what oil to run and in this case it is likely TCW-3 two stroke oil at a 50:1 mix. Dino, semi-synthetic, or full-synthetic can be used so long as it is labeled TCW-3. Last time I checked Amzoil two stroke oil was not labeled TCW-3 although they suggest it can be safely used at 100:1. That choice is up to you but I refuse to be a proving (or disproving) ground for Amzoil or any other company that makes wild claims. Engines today require little or no break-in time except for some of the 4-strokes. The fact that BMW, Corvette, and others ship from the factory with full synthetic oil is testiment to that. Dino oil in Europe for example is expensive so synthetic is used almost exclusively and they change oil far less frequently than we do in the U.S. You can run a new Evinrude E-tec wide open right out of the box but it does get a bit more oil for a short period of time. The ECU can also be programmed for the engine to run at 50:1 or 100:1 depending on the type of oil you want to run.
 

Alumarine

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

Just curious. Is my 82 4cyl 50hp steel bore?

Oil injected motors run at 100/1 at idle and at full throttle comes down to 50/1 at full throttle... I would never run 100/1..We run 40/1 in our Merc V6's for added lubrication at high rpms that we spin. You don't want to run full synthetic in a steel bore motors. Other forums I am on explain this and I don't want to try.. My bridgeport 2.4 liter sleeves are Nickasel and requires full synthectic oil. NOT One of the guys I hang with(all racing V6's Merc's)will run Amsoil as an FYI. We don't blow up motors that cost upwards of $$20,000 Run the synthectic blends that are available in your motor and forget the wild goose chase. I am with JB...to much testing has been done by the manufacturer so why try and invent the wheel. ..
 

boater1234

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

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RadarRick

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

i always run what the mauf says it was just a curious question that no one can seem to answer as i guess there is no answer to it.
I think you've found your answer. Many posters have put in much time & effort to provide you with their thoughtful and informed opinions. It has been good to hear all sides. In my humble opinion, however, coming back to the same question - after all this discussion - might not be appreciated. It was a great discussion though - thanks for bringing it up.
 

fisherguy123

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

probably because you might void the warranty ...... i know it`s sarcastic but that is the only reason i can think of. My old 86 Suzuki is 100:1 and my 82 Merc is 50:1 how come this ?
I buy the cheapest TWC3 oil I can find , usually at Wally World or Cananadian Tire and use that , I know they get reputable oil companys to make their oils and I never had a problem. Even used it in my liquid cooled snowmobiles that had oil injection and at -10 below.
 

boater1234

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

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Bob_VT

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Re: Why can't i run my new 15hp 2stroke merc on 100:1 after it's broke in?

Just as you said opinions,i don't want opinions i want facts if people have them if not it's ok.Also i do appreciate what people are saying as i already know to run it on 50:1.That is not what i'm after.Im after what make the motors different that one can run a different ratio of oil thats the anwer i'm looking for that has not been provided for me.If it can't be anwered that is ok i will just google it and see what i can find.I think you guys are taking this the wrong way and in no way am i ungrateful for the advice everyone is providing.

The thing is i know to run it on 50:1 i just wanted to know what differs in the motors that the manuf says to run one on 50:1 and the other 100:1,that is all i want to know.This is just a very curious question i have thought of for many yrs and just figured i would ask it to make a discussion about.I don't know why people are taking this the wrong way like i don't care what people are saying or i'm not listening to them as i am.I asked this question to try and learn from people what makes outboard engines different at the same hp or brand.

I just want to know what seperates the small,mercs and yamahas or even other small 2 stroke outboards of this hp from using a different oil ratio.I am just trying to learn a bit more about these motors on oil,why they differ so much as 100:1 and 50:1 is a wide margin for an oil ratio.I'm sorry if everyone thinks i'm ungrateful as i meant no disrespect to anyone here,i just want to know the facts on this subject.So far everyone has posted the same thing in a different way follow the manuf specs,belive me i do understand that.I was just wondering if someone has actually tore down a few of these small motors and while they were doing that they saw some differences in the motors,thats all i'm wondering.Maybe there is a outboard mechanic who knows the difference when he tore them down.Like i said this is just a curious question that has rolled around in my head for many yrs and what better place to ask it but here.

WOW! Why are you arguing when people answer a question. Why don't you send mail to the design engineers and ask them the question? Then you will have facts! Contact the Design Engineer's, the Manufacturer's and the Scientists and argue with them.
 
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