Will my 16' Baja go faster?

[CalicoKid]

Hi all, I just put up my Baja for winter and am looking to extend the season by doing some workbench racing. I'd like to explore the possibility of going faster next summer and have a few months to fix, figure and fabricate.<br /><br />I have a 1988 Baja SS164 its a 16' plus change bowrider with a 1988 Johnson 110 w/tilt-trim. Everything is perfect and original. This boat has been used and stored carefully since day one.<br /><br />I don't have access to a scale but by gathering weight figures from manu. etc. I,ve estimated a generous running weight of 1610# (850# hull, 310# motor, 100# fuel (12gal) and oil, 300# 2 people (Wife and I soaking wet, after a big meal, wearing all of our jewelry) and 50# equip.)<br /><br />Right now I'm propped with a painted stainless OMC stamped 13x19 that has been rebuilt, cupped pretty good (before I owned it). I don't know what the pitch actually is now but by using some speed formulas I'm estimating it's around 20 to 21. Oh, it's a 3 blade and it doesn't have a whole lot of rake compared with some of the bass boats around here.<br /><br />My hull is a shallow vee with no step before the transom. My anti-cav. plate is running a half inch below the bottom of the hull. I have a Stingray, I need it for slower safer planing on the river.<br /><br />Forgive me for the length of description, I haven't the means to post a picture at this time.<br /><br />I'm able to run 49mph @ 5500-5600rpm and can tickle 50mph if I hold my mouth just right. At top speed if I trim out the motor more my rpms go up but speed stays same or lessens a mph or 2. Smooth water really drags me down.<br /><br />According to a couple of caculators I've used I sould be able to get a max. 65mph out of a setup like this. I'm wondering how? The boat accelerates like a funny-car but doesn't over-rev. Have I run out of power at the top? I'm thinking I can't get the motor trimmed high enough to go faster without running out of clean water. Would a setback device or jack plate help? Is there a better prop design for a small light boat like this? Where is the most bang for my buck?<br /><br />I've learned a lot from the experts on this site and appreciate all comments. Can anyone help the Stunner live up to it's name?

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

I do not know how much top speed your looking for but it seems that the engine RPMs at WOT is low. ALso removing the hdrofoil will give you more top end. They continue to lift the stern ( and push the bow down) more and more as the boat increases in speed. You then try to bring the bow up by trimming the motor. Now you have the motor trying to compensate for the extra (un-needed) lift of the hydrofoil. The prop should run perpendicular to the water surface for max bite, trimming it out too far just to bring the bow up is a sacrifice of efficency. <br /><br />Before you change props, take the hydrofoil off and check for your self. You can always put it back. <br /><br />If the boat has a tendency to lean hard in high speed truns, blow the prop out, and be sensitive to steering then the bow is too far down, the extra lift in the center of the boat (from the hydrofoil) is creating a port to starboard teeter totter effect.<br /><br />To keep the bow down at slow speeds, accellerate smoother and faster, control porpoising, hold plane at lower speeds, and more search this site under Smart Tabs.

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

OOPS!! I just realized I posted my RPMs as 4500-4600 when I meant to write 5500-5600!! fixed now!<br /><br />I'm keeping the Stingray for now. I put it on there last season for safety reasons. I travel mostly on a reservoir fed by a sand bottom braided river. Navigation is always touch and go and I need to be able to maintain a high stern at low speeds. I'm on the same river at night also. I've run with and without the foil and my speed at top end is hardly affected, about 1 mph gps. My handling and holeshot are both much improved with the foil. The river is just spooky at the speed I need to plane without it. As it is set up my boat exhibits none of the negative ride/handling characteristics of NJ's concern. At top end the back third of the hull is about all that's in the water. The hull has nearly vertical sides at the stern and very square chines.

 

[catfish1]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

I need to be able to maintain a high stern at low speeds.

i'm speaking from experience here, i used to run with a hydrofoil until i got smart tabs. the tabs will allow you to plane at a much slower speed than the hydrofoil will.

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

I didn't write this post in regards to how I can lift my stern. I want to get some expert advise on speed. As I stated: My boat goes no slower with the foil than without, I like the foil, the foil stays. I'm not interested in trim tabs, If I want to read debates about trim tabs I'll read about them in other posts regarding trim tabs. I'm sorry for being terse but I'd like to get off this tangeant before it goes for too long.<br /><br />Any other ideas?

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

If the cav plate is one inch below keel, you could raise it to be even with keel and try that. Mine is an inch above keel and it works great, but my hull is a different animal than yours. Too high on a shallow transom deadrise will cause blowout when turning hard, so it al comes down to experimentation. A good power jackplate with built in setback almost always improves things, it gets the prop in cleaner water. Good luck....

 

[catfish1]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

easy big guy!

 

[Capt. T]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Calico Kid:<br /><br />Actually you do have access to a scale. To determine actual boat weight, make sure boat is outfitted in typical fashsion (e.g fuel, equip, etc.) Take tow vehicle, boat & trailer to nearby truck stop / weigh station. For about $6-$10 they can give you weight of tow vehicle and seperate weight of trailer & boat. Go back later with trailer only. The difference is actual weight. This will give you hard data from which to calculate.<br /><br />I can sympathize with your river bottom issues, I run on the upper part of Wisconsin River (near Wausau) getting up on plane fast & at slow speed is critical. <br /><br />Elsewhere on IBoats I've found info that suggests a WOT rpm of 5600-5800 rpm so your right in the sweetspot.<br /><br />Having said that, you might try going up in pitch (will lower WOT rpms) and down in diameter (will increase WOT rpms). Go up 2" pitch and down 1/2" or 1" in diameter just to see what difference you get. There is a trade-off between top end and holeshot. If you can afford to give up a little on the holeshot you might gain a couple of mph on the top end.<br /><br />As far as the calculators go... Don't believe everything you see. The formulas tend to oversimplify real world effects such as chop, hull condition (clean or dirty) etc.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

The best guy to answer your questions on props is DHadley as I see from these posts. When you said that the max RPMs was 4600 it sounded like you needed less pitch. You also stressed the point that you needed to run in shallow water keeping the stern up. Thus the suggestions, but if you are that pleased with your hydrofoil, "don't fix what ain't broke" my old Pa used to say. <br /><br />If you are at 5500 RPMs you do not have enough left to get to 65 MPH. Something else has to give! A three blade prop usualy gives more top end than the four. The four will get you out of the hole quicker. But you know all of this, I am sure. An extra 15 MPH is not going to come easy or cheep. Best of luck and have fun!

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Boy, is there a deal coming for you!!<br /><br />Keep an eye on Bass and Walleye Boat magazine and / or Trailer Boat magazine. John Tiger is doing a father / daughter project on a Baja with a V4 OMC crossflow. They have redone the boat completely and rebuilt the motor from top to bottom. <br /><br />In the article he outlines each step of the set up. The article will answer each of your questions. I can tell you right now that what you are looking for is in this (these) article(s).<br /><br />The last time I spoke to John they hadn't completed the break in and his daughter was cruising around at a very comfortable speed. IE -- if you happen to run on a lake in upstate NY and see a young girl in a Baja -- you might want to wait before you challenge her to a race.<br /><br />Stay tuned!

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Definatly raise the engine at least 1", Personally I would raise it to 1/2" above the bottom of the boat! Yes, a transom jack would be the way to go, but the electric hydralic ones will shoot the heck out of a $1000.00! But hey, if money is no problem!!! (it usually is). A stainless prop is a must if you are looking for performance, as they do not flex at high RPM! After you raise your engine you are going to have to experiment like the rest of us for the right prop#s. If your calculations are correct Im going to say a 22P, 14 1/4 stainless is going to be a good place to start!!<br /><br />Now, here we go again, I am a very big advocate of synthetics, both for the engine and the lower unit, You will pick up a couple hundred RPMs at the top end which will transfer to higher top speed and better all around protection!! You will find a lot of opinions here on the forum both pro and con about synthetics, but I use them and have used them for a long time and would never go back! The cost is just not that much more for the performance and the protection!!<br /><br />One thing I do not understand is that with your present configuration you do not gain any performance when you trim up ????????????????<br /><br />Have fun this winter! <br /><br /> LubeDude

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

post this question at www.cbpba.com.<br /><br />nothing but go-fast owners. i'm sure they will enjoy tricking your boat out for ya.

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Wow thanks for the reply's! I'd love to see an article on my boat being built up like you said Dhadley, I'll look for it. Maybe you could throw a flag up when it comes out? (I'm not a subscriber).<br /><br />LD, when trimming from all the way down to about halfway out I can gain 6-8 mph and get the bow up out of the water, I just can't get it (the hull) to break free like I want to. I have a lot of trim left but the prop seems to slip after 49-50 mph. I believe I'm running out of clean water. I'm thinking raising my motor on the transom would make things worse (I see evidence of the motor being mounted one hole higher in the past, I bought it mounted where it is now). I guess I'll have to try it for myself. I'm thinking it needs to go BACK, but am not prepared to spring for a pwr jackplate. I'd prefer a fixed setback or manual jackplate type setup but need to do more research as I don't know what I'm looking for yet and can't toss around a ton of cash making mistakes (who can?).<br /><br />Jeez Matt, I'm feeling a bit inadequate after looking at those big boats!<br /><br />How can synthetic gear and engine oils help?

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Kid, you are definately headed in the right direction. Very good! The manual jackplate (I strongly reccomend looking at Bob's stuff -- very good plates) is where youre headed. <br /><br />A couple of suggestions; get a water pressure gauge if you dont have one. Get a baseline on the pressure where youre at. This is very important. The other is about the prop. You can try a bunch but when John's article comes out I can guarante you will save a lot of time. As a matter of fact, there may be some opportunity to buy a prop he has tested on his daughters set up. Let me know if you are interested (dhadley50@aol.com) and I'll find out.<br /><br />Neat project!

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

One thing that is going to help is a good heavey cup on the stainless prop you select as it will not blow out as soon!<br /><br />As for the synthetic oils, I had a 15' Ranger Bass boat with an 85 evenrude, Just by changing over to (Manufacturer not mentioned) 100:1 in the engine (Yes I know your engine is rated at 50:1) But you heard me right! This particular oil is formulated to run at that ratio! and changing the lower unit oil to synthetic I picked up 200-300 RPM, Enough to go to another pitch prop! Its slicker and frees things up that much!<br /><br />I use it now in my 150 Merc (oil injection) And love it! It is TC-W Rated also!<br /><br />Happy Boating <br /><br />LubeDude

 

[Northern Eclipse]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

CalicoKid I had a 170 Baja with a 140hp merc, the best prop I used for good all round performance, was a 21p 131/4" dia. Raker very well cupped, I could trim right to the limit without blowout, my Cavitation plate was just about even with bottom of transom boat would run between 58-62 at the best and ran best with a light chop, on flat water it was difficult to get that hull unglued.

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Ha Ha Dhadley! Wouldn't I want the prop that John decided to KEEP??? Seriously, I really appreciate the offer of assistance. I just might want to persue that (props) but not likely until springtime. I am itching to read this article now! <br /><br />I'm going to ask the wife for a jackplate for Christmas. With a little boat like mine, what would be the safe max. setback I should be considering? Is more always better? I'm rated for 120hp, and I'm at 110 right now. This is not some ratty old boat, it is rock solid and perfect throughout. <br /><br />I've looked at the Bob's Machining plates. It looks like there's only one real manual in a 5" or 8" setback but it can be configured in different ways? It also looks like it can be adjusted on the water? Nice looking hardware and 200 bucks isn't bad. I need to measure up my cables etc. and see if I can get into this nice and easy (without replacing a ton of other stuff).<br /><br />I've been procrastinating on the pressure guage. That's something everyone really should have on this river with all the sandbars. It's at the top of my list, along with a new trim guage (mine's goofy) or sender, I need to be accurate if I'm going to try to make comparisons.<br /><br />I'll need to read that article before considering props too carefully, it's to cold to test them anyhow the water will be real hard soon. Here and elsewhere I keep hearing of the Raker type props really performing on small shallow boats. Any other good ones out there?<br /><br />LD, my motor is VRO, how does that stuff treat oil pumps and spark plugs? How does it look coming out of your gearcase in the fall?

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

Check out my home page there are a lot of answers there! <br /><br />I use all the products from this company that I can! They put every effort to make the best product for every application! They were the first in synthetics and are the best in the world! They will stand behind there products 100%<br /><br />I would not use anything else! Your plugs wil last longer than you can imagine, they will neverfoul out under any cercumstances, (as long as your ignition is ok), There will be almost no carbon buildup! The gear lube will protect better than any other lube and if you were to have a seal failure it will protect better with moisture present than any other gear oil! You absolutly cannot go wrong!<br /><br />Email me from my website and I will give you more details!<br /><br />LubeDude

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

I would start with the 5" manual from Bobs. Later if you feel you need more, Bob has some 2" spacers we can add. As for the prop, we can get you just about any that he is using in the article except one (that I know of). He has an old OMC Silver Streak and I'll bet you that ends up on the boat at some point. Thats a "specific use" type prop and maybe not something you want to run all the time anyway. Now that I think about it, I may still have one too. Oh well. <br /><br />Youre dead on about the gauge too. Get it first -- before the jackplate. Then you'll have your baseline. If you follow what John is doing and use the same model props he does, you'll run out of water pressure (height) before you run out of prop.<br /><br />Are we havin fun yet?

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Will my 16' Baja go faster?

I've got a pretty good idea of what I need to do now. I'm going to spend the next few weeks preparing the boat for the big changes. I need to measure up my cables and determine whether or not I can get 5"-8" setback out of them. I need to look into a pressure guage (can I tee that into my indicator hose?), my trim guage situation, and do a little wiring cleanup under the helm (typical mess). When I've convinced my wife I'm going to order the jackplate. Hopefully I'll have seen this article somewhere along the way here... It's a long time until the water softens up in WI so there's no need to be hasty (except I'm anxious as heck). Once spring rolls around I'll be able to test the new setup with my existing prop, record the results and start playing with others.<br /><br />Thanks everyone for starting me off on this project, I'll likely be posting more specific inquiries throughout winter. Dhadley you've been especially helpful, please post a notification when I can see John's daughter's boat in print. I'll be looking for props this spring I'm sure, I hope your offer stands then if I need it! Thanks again!