Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

[SS MAYFLOAT]

I have this problem with my basement during heavy rains. I get some water leaking in. Regular rains it doesn't leak any.<br /><br />I added another downspout last year and it has helped. It only leaks during major down pours. The landscape does slope away from the house.<br /><br />My neighor is 78 and gave me this tip:<br /><br />It involves digging from the foundation and out to about 4 feet. At the foundation go about a foot down and taper out to about a foot and a half. <br /><br />So say if you have 20' of basement wall to do, you would have a hole that is 20'X4" and only 1' deep on one side tapering down to 1 and a half foot on the other side.<br /><br />He said after that put about 2 to 3 inches of kitty litter down. Then put 2 inches of pea gravel down and back fill with the dirt you dug out.<br /><br />He says the kitty litter will make a clay barrier and won't let the water pass through to go into the foundation.<br /><br />Has anybody else heard of this?

 

[oddjob]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

Mayfloat, It might work, but what if it doesn't? That's alot of work for nothing. When you move the earth away why not build a form and pour a solid concrete wall from the footer all way up to a few inches above the ground level? Or you could lay block (staggered placement) and fill the holes with clorafill. In either case use 1/2" rebar and reinforce wall with 12" grid for concrete or place a bar in the length of each vertical hole of the block. I would prefer a solid steel reinforced concrete wall (it will never crack and leak) but I don't no if there is an easy means of cam-locking the plywood form to an existing concrete wall. You could probably purchase extra long cam ties and go thru the existing wall to support/hold the form in place while pouring.

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

Expensive lesson, here, SS:<br />When we moved into this ranch-style house 20 yrs ago, it had a finished basement. Occasionally, after a heavy rain, I'd find the carpet damp in one corner. Well, we just lived with it, until 2 years ago, when I found the panelling in that corner disintegrating. I pulled the wall apart and found that the sole plate was gone, as were most of the bottoms of the 2x4 nailers. Also, the fireplace has an extra flue to the basement for a future woodburner. The bottom of that flue was also wet. We decided to call in the basement waterproofers. After 3 estimates (we ALWAYS get 3 estimates for everything), we settled on the company. The plan was for them to come inside, break up 1' of concrete flooring along all 4 outside walls and install a drain system to a new sump (and sump pump) they'd install. To do so, I had to tear out the finished basement walls and carpet. On the outside, they dug down to the footer and tarred & visqueened the outside of the basement walls. That cost the wife her flowers and plants along 3 sides of the house, and part of her garden in the back. They sloped the topsoil so water would run away from the house. They also installed a drain from the downspouts to the street, which the sump pump also pumped into. Their price: $8500. After several trips to repair cracks in the concrete, we thought we were through. Until it rained hard for 5 days, that is. The leak returned, coming from the fireplace flue. The waterproofers returned. Their theory was the rain was leeching through the fireplace mortar on the outside and suggested we call our fireplace man to seal the bricks & mortar. They also re-dug around the fireplace, repaired some of the tar, and left. The trench along that side of the house required digging up some of our asphalt driveway. They back-filled it with gravel with written assurance that they would return in the Spring to apply patch & sealer. We called the fireplace guy, and he came out, installed a new chimney cap & applied sealer ($450). Two days later, it rained hard again. Still leaked, so I called the waterproofers again. The day they showed up the temps were near zero. They dug out around the fireplace again and took a hose & filled up the trench with water. No leak. The ran the hose all along the sides of the chimney. No leak. The placed the hose on the top of one side. No leak. The moved the hose to the top of the other side. Voila! It leaked. The water is getting behind the brick, down the inside of the siding to the top plate, running along the sub-floor to the bricks, then down into the fireplace flue. Not the basement waterproofer's shoddy workmanship (which I originally accused them of), not the water leeching through the bricks & mortar. So, this Spring, I'll rip off the siding and find the culpret & make the repairs. (Who knows how much replacing the siding will cost.) Total price (not including siding), $8950 , and I still have the leak!<br />Sorry this went so long, but learn from my experience! Good luck!

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

WOW Brian I feel for you. I have two friends that had the same method done. They too still have leaks. They aren't as bad, but still any water is not wanted.<br /><br />I've heard about kitty litter before my neighbor told me about it. Once it gets wet it compacts itself into a sheet and will only allow very little water to pass through. I'm going to rent a small excavator to do the digging.<br /><br />Oddjob, I would have to dig down about 7 to 8 feet to get to my footer. I did think about pouring a outer wall, but that would be about 3X the price of the gravel and kitty litter (dried ground clay). On the side that is deep, I plan to put in some perforated drain pipe and have it dump over the side of the hill that I live on.<br /><br />I only will get about 1 to 2 gallons after a bad storm.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

"Wrong !! Wrong!!! Wrong!!!!<br />what your neigbor or friend is recomending is a "French Drain" <br /><br />Stop what you are doing!!!!<br /><br />1st do you have gutters on your house?????

 

[neumanns]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

Mayfloat, Sounds like it could be worth a shot. Not to much cost or labor involved compared to the alternatives. That is if I understand you correctly the trench would be 4 foot wide and 1-1.5foot deep by the length of the wall. Basically creating an apron to get the water 4 foot away from the wall before it is allowed to percolate down? Is it just coincidence that a bobcat bucket is about 48"wide.<br /><br />If it did work it would sure beat the standard approaches to this problem by a mile.<br /><br />Isn't the traditional approach to this problem to install drain tile? Or are some of these other sugustions more common approaches. Just currious myself now.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

Digging down, laying gravel, then perforated drainfield pipe, then more gravel, and finally dirt is the best way that I know of. The drainfield pipes should all be connected to more pipe to drain away from the house. On the ones I have installed we have layed at least two pipes running away from the house. All gutter downpipes also drained into pipes that connected to the drainfield pipes. It is labor intensive sucky work, but the end result is a water free basement.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

Questions you have to ask yourself!!!<br /><br />Are you in a flood plain???<br />Is there poor drainage, water accumulates ??? <br />Ground is flat and water can't run off???<br />Cement or dirt cellar floor????<br />Is water coming up from cracks in cement floor.<br />Gutters and downspouts are clear, water not running out over the top of gutters onto the ground???<br />Does the water run down the downspouts and just dumps there on the ground???<br />Downspouts don't go into a drain system around the perimmeter of the house???<br /><br />A French drain may not be the answer if you don't know where the water is coming into basement.<br />You don't want to spend money if you don't have to. <br />And remember none of us has seen the land that the house sits on<br />And can you do the work or do you have to hire someone. Can be costly.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

French drains<br />Up around here if ya put in a french drain we generally use rubber roofing material 3-4' out, pitched slightly and bring the edge up a few inches or so.<br />Probly half the cost of all that catlitter etc:<br />Cat litter is basically made from a clay base.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

SS,<br /><br />There are various reasons why basements leak. Where is your leak coming from? If it is hydrostatic pressure that builds up and pushes up threw the floor, that is one problem, If it is leaking from above than that is another.<br /><br />Trace the leak, and repost. There are several techniques that do work but they are dependant on what your problem is. Type of soil, water table, contour of the land, gutters, sump pumps and their placement all play a part.<br /><br />As this is a leak that occurs only when it rains "heavy" I am inclined to believe that you may have some success getting the water to shed away from the foundation. How you get to this is a matter of technique. Answers vary with the above questions and where you are located.<br /><br />Just a bit more info would help refine the responces.... <br /><br />FYI: Plastic should do the same thing as the kitty litter.....

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

FlyRod, I'll do my best to answer your questions.<br /><br />First my house is not in a flood plane. If my house was flooded, the city of Mansfield would be under about 20' of water. If this would happen, you better call Noah <br /><br />The gutters are a standard residential 4" single piece system 65' long. At first there was only one downspout for the length of the house. Since then I have added another downspout with proper drainage for it. The pitch to the gutter was changed to divert the water from the center of the house to each end where a downspout is. This eliminated leaking for normal rains and took care of about 95% of the water coming in.<br /><br />There is never any standing water within 50' or more from my house. The water seeps in through the mortar joints in the last two courses of block. It just seeps in during the heavy rains. It leaks only when the ground becomes saturated from many days of rain and when the ground is thawing out. Noticed this during our warm up that melted the 8" of snow we had.<br /><br />Basement floor is in great shape. No cracks and now hydrostatic pressure pushing water up. Again I am up on a hill side so that is viturally impossible for that pressure to push up through my floor. <br /><br />Prior to finishing my basement walls, I did see where the water was coming in, which I mentioned earlier about the last two course of block that were leaking.<br /><br />There is a sidewalk that is about 10' away from the front of the house that runs the length of the house. The side walk is lower than the dirt is next to the house. Probably about 2' lower. So the ground does slope away from the foundation of the house. It is between this area of the sidewalk and the house where the water is coming in. There is no trees close by for the roots to help in the leaking.<br /><br />At the west end of my house where the main grade is, about 20' away from the house is an embankment that drops down about 20 to 25' that is almost straight down. This is where my downspouts drain to. So all water that is collected from the roof is dumped a good 20' away from the house over that embankment.<br /><br />The area that is leaking is about 14' from the corner where the bank is. It will not be that big of an area. <br /><br />When I finished my basement, I put up a rubber membrain between my pine panaling and the block. Sealed all the anchors and left a 1" gap at the bottom of the wall. So when it does leak in, it won't get the panaling wet. So far since the wall has leaked, it has not got my panaling wet. This just makes it easier on mopping up what little water there is that leaks in.<br /><br />There is lots of clay in this area. Ohio once was a major brick/pottery producing state. There still is a couple of brick manufactures close by that is still in business. That is where I plan to buy a truck load of ground dry clay. Locals buy the stuff and use it for kitty litter.<br /><br />I hope this helped answer your questions Flyrod

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

The water seeps in the last two courses of block.<br />So is it seeping in the whole length or the width? Or is it seeping through a 2-3' of area? <br />And it dosen't leak in normal rain.<br />Since you are up high are you built on any ledge?<br /><br />65' was a long span for one downspout to handle.<br />And you say that the downspouts go into plastic piping or whatever away from the house<br />are you getting wet spots or puddles?<br />There is a rubber membrane and paneling on the walls so you can't use "drylock water proofing"

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

The area that is leaking is only about a 2 to 3' area on the inside. As far as a DryLoc, I used the stuff before, but it only lasted a short while. That was on another house that I owned. I look at it that you can't patch a hole from the inside if the force is pushing from the outside. Almost like putting a bandaid on the inside of your boat to plug a leak.<br /><br />I think the water is coming from the sidewalk since it works as a run off for the front yard. It has to be wicking and or a capillary action allowing the water to run back to the foundation. It has to be between the side walk and the house. That is the only area it can be. There is a porch which is a concrete slab and then the concrete drive to the garage. I have no water coming in from those areas. It is only the short area where the dirt meets the foundation.<br /><br />A friend of mine has a bobcat, and he owes me a few favors. I know I will need to dig it and the side walk up to make a barrier to the foundation.<br /><br />The basement floor is tiled, so there is not any danger of damaging anything now. <br /><br />A weekend should be all the time it will take to remedy the situation.<br /><br />2 tons of clay $65 delivered<br />2 tons of gravel $45 delivered<br />drain line $25<br /><br />So I should be able to get by for less than 200 bucks.<br /><br />The advantage of clay is when a root, a stake or something that punches through the clay, it will seal itself. Where as the use of a membrane will have a hole in it and may not seal up which will let water through. The clay will seal itself if the stake or whatever is removed. Sorta like that slime you put in a tire to seal leaks.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

When I built houses I would put in perimeter drains around the footings, first laying down a layer of crushed stone, then perforated pipe and a little more crushed stone being that water seeks least resistance. That gets exspensive after the fact.<br />The french drain system that your neighbor thought of is also a good idea but not for a 2-3'area. Dosen't make any since to do because you would have to do the whole perimeter for it to work right.<br />If it is a new block foundation maybe someone didn't seal it good enough on the outside.<br />Since someone owes you a favor the 200 bucks seems to be the cheapest way to go.<br />Let us know how in the future if it worked.<br />Good Luck!!!!!

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Will this "Tip on Basement Waterproofing" work?

Thanks Flyrod, the house was built in 1958. I'll let you know how it works out. With a couple of cases of long necks, it won't be work, but just something to do!