Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

[Allmand]

Ok.
I am restoring a 1966 23ft John Allmand Cabin Cruiser. I have put a new steering cable, hardware, a repaired the throttle cables so far. My next task is to do some wiring. Most of my switches on the dash board do not work (blower, bilge, and horn). However, the anchor light switch and bow light switch do work.

The nightmare began when I removed the console and looked behind it. It is a rat?s nest of wires, none of the wires are correctly color coded. The wire goes behind the helm where another rats nest exists and splits off many different direction and has inline fuses on many of the wires. The guy who had it before me has all the lights wired with freaking speaker wire for god?s sake.

Back at the transom I have the same problem. I know this can't be right, but there are about 10 different wires connected to the starter's hot terminal. What I think are the trim wires running behind the motor are bare, and shocked the crap out of me when I was replacing the steering cable ( I know, I should have disconnected the battery). It?s a mess, behind the console, wires are running from the hot connection on some of the gauges to power other electronics, and many of the wires from different gauges and other electronics are tied together in the same wire nut.

This is my first boat, and I do not even know where to begin. Should I just remove every inch of wire (since you can't tell where it goes, or what it is coming from because so many of the hot wires are coming off of hot connections from other electronics), should I just take each gauge and piece of electronic equipment one at a time and simply run new wire? I have read something about a distribution block and looked at a few pictures of one but have not seen anything like this on the boat.

Also, it looks like the guy may have just run ALL hot wires directly to the battery. There are 10-12 wires connected directly to the battery, and then proceed to get lost in cluster of wire nuts and tangle fuks.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[hawghead]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

There are some good generic wiring diagrams that you can use on this website. I would start trying to organize it and label the wires. Maybe even try to write it down to help keep things straight. But it sounds like a start from scratch scenario.

 

[fish_on_the_deck]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

With a ridiculous rats nest I've found it is often best to rip out and replace all power wiring... especially if the materials used are sub-par. You need marine grade materials... meaning tinned wire and heat shrinked crimp terminals.

The first thing of concern is that everything is connected to the battery! no, no... you need to create a single source from the battery (w/ breaker within like 12") to a distribution point in the console/cabin or other central location. This should have a stud/bus type distribution for both negative and +12V. try something like these:

http://bluesea.com/category/9/38

http://bluesea.com/category/9/35/productline/184

then, each load needs to be switched AND overload protected. I prefer breakers to fuses, just so you dont have to worry about carrying spares and potentially being screwed offshore without them. you can try this type thing:

http://bluesea.com/category/62/27/productline/119

but I am very happy with the guys that custom made one of these panels for me... they have breakers, plus look great and customizable to your loads... they dont cost all that much more than the first either.

http://shop.newwiremarine.com/Custom-Switch-Panels_c3.htm

I just re-read your post... and saw that there are wire nuts in your boat!! dude... rip this crap our! and I'm not even the "hard core" restorer. try these guys too if you want raw materials.

http://genuinedealz.com/

The guys with the switch panel also have battery cables though at competitive prices for an assembled cable... then you dont have to worry about buying a bunch of extra materials you wont use:

http://shop.newwiremarine.com/Custom-Battery-Cables_c2.htm

Anyway, good luck... you've come to the right place... I was in your shoes a couple years ago thinking: "what the hell have I gotten myself into?!?"... but you'll get there.

-fish

 

[Allmand]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Thanks for the resources!

To be clear,
I will need to take the PowerPost Cable connector and connect that directly to the battery post both - and +?

Then place a fuse/breaker box 12" from the battery and connect the battery cables to it?

Then run the accessory and gauge wires from the breaker, using the heat shrink connectors and tin wire, correct?

If this is correct...what about the bow, anchor, and cabin lights? Do I need to add another breaker in the cabin?

Or should I put only 1 breaker in the cabin and run a longer battery cable to the breaker in the cabin instead of having the breaker in the back of the boat?

Thanks

 

[MLD]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

You could always run a 8-10 gauge power and ground wires to the console and put a fuse/distro panel there and then work from there. that's after you put the main breaker in between at the battery.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

If you're thinking of rewiring a boat and you've never done this before, I strongly recommend buying one or two books on the subject and studying them until you understand what you are doing.

Check your favorite marine retailer or amazon.com

 

[Allmand]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Thanks for the tips everyone....please check out the diagram below. Is this basically what fish on the deck was talking about? Run this basic setup? But like MLD said, put the fuse panel behind the console instead of near the transom....

 

[EricJRW]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Allmand,

Be sure to check out the sticky threads on wiring up top. There is some very good information on wiring up there. I particularly like the one on the standardized colors (http://www.acbsphl.org/Tips_and_hints/ABYC_Wiring.htm).

PS. Your diagram looks good. I suspect though there should be a fuse/breaker on the positive supply, somewhere very near the battery, in case the supply is compromised on it's way to the distribution panel.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Thanks for the tips everyone....please check out the diagram below. Is this basically what fish on the deck was talking about? Run this basic setup? But like MLD said, put the fuse panel behind the console instead of near the transom....

As posted above, there must be a fuse or circuit breaker in the cable from the battery to the fuse/circuit breaker panel. It should be located within seven inches (along the wire) of the battery positive terminal.

ABYC recommends no wires smaller than #16 for boat wiring except for data wires in a cable. This is as much for physical strength as electrical capacity.

And in case it wasn't mentioned, all materials including wire and connectors should be "marine" grade. Wire and cable should be stranded, tinned wire.

 

[fish_on_the_deck]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Allmand,

Yeah I meant the fuse panel (or switch panel with breakers) should be at the distribution point like on your diagram.

The fuse near the battery is one that is used to protect the cable labeled on your diagram as SUPPLY. This should be close (within 7" according to rwidman... I couldn't remember for sure) to the battery.. that could be somethign like this:

http://www.boatersworld.com/product/MP63509762.htm?utm_medium=productsearch&utm_source=google

But look around for a better price... breakers beat a fuse operationally, but price is always a factor for everyone too.

Here is another diagram I found online that is pretty good:

This does not show the breaker / fuse discussed above, so add that in. The PBUS and the NBUS would be at your distribution point (console, etc) and is where you would connect your fuse block or switch panel, and use the NBUS to connect up all the black negative of the duplex cable.

The single lug could really be taken out and all black cables connected to the battery terminal, but its nice to have only one cable on the terminal.

The DBL LG (double lug) shown here is great to have in the bilge or somewhere protected at the transom near the motor especially if your battery is going to be forward in the console.

Another note, I would use larger than 18AWG... preferable 14AWG, but at least 16AWG for most loads... some might require bigger. find a good max current table online to be sure. And remember the electricians favorite formula: V(voltage) = I(current) * R (resistant)

12V dc wiring is not that hard... but if you have zero experience a beginner's book could go a long way. You off to a good start though.

 

[Allmand]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Thanks everyone for the information....I think I can tackle this now. Off to spend more money....

 

[LadyAnya]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Does anything change when there are 2 batteries?

Would I put the fuse/circuit breaker on the Com terminal or elsewhere?

 

[fish_on_the_deck]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Does anything change when there are 2 batteries?

Would I put the fuse/circuit breaker on the Com terminal or elsewhere?

I guess technically you should fuse both cables (the + from each battery) unless you can get the switch and fuse within 7" of both battery terminals.

But... the risks are so slim of a short anywhere between the batteries and the switch (if located relatively close), I'd just fuse the common cable... In reality your doing better than a lot of boats out there just by doing that.

It's not like that rule is a coast guard regulation... its an ABYC standard (I think, dont quote me on that one), which are a great rule of thumb, but youre very unlikely to have any probelms by fudging on this one.

 

[Allmand]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Do I NEED a negative and positive bus bar? Or will a neg bus bar and fuse box be all I need?

 

[scca vette]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

You could always run a 8-10 gauge power and ground wires to the console and put a fuse/distro panel there and then work from there. that's after you put the main breaker in between at the battery.

I agree! That is what we did on mine. It made life a LOT easier and it also allowed me to have a supply of power sources if I need to add something.

Each circuit is fused and the fuse holder is numbered. I have made a wiring cheat sheet that is small enough to fit in the glove box and had it laminated.

 

[Allmand]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Nice setup.....

But could someone please tell me if a negative and positive bus is what I need? Could I just use a neg bus for the grounds and hook the hot wires into the fuse box?

 

[BoatNoobie]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Nice setup.....

But could someone please tell me if a negative and positive bus is what I need? Could I just use a neg bus for the grounds and hook the hot wires into the fuse box?

If I understand your question, that's how you're suppose to setup your fuse box.

 

[scca vette]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Nice setup.....

But could someone please tell me if a negative and positive bus is what I need? Could I just use a neg bus for the grounds and hook the hot wires into the fuse box?

You do not "need" it however like I said it makes life a lot easier.
Here is a basic rundown on how we did mine

1. Pos + neg cables from batt to under dash (pos cable fused)
2. the POS cable goes into the distribution block with the clear cover (top right in photo).
3. One wire comes out of that block and goes to IGN switch. Ignition power coming out of switch goes to 1 of the fuse blocks you see.
4. The other 2 wires out of the clear block go to the other 2 fuse boxes for full time power.
5. The ground wire coming from the batt goes to a ground distribution block. It is not shown however looks like the black strip inbetween the 2 fuse blocks.
6. All powers and grounds are ran from the fuse box and the ground strip to the switches on the panel or whatever needs powered.

 

[Allmand]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

I drew up a mock of how I think I should be wiring my boat after reading the posts....(of course I am most likely misunderstanding some things) but if the diagram isnt too small...maybe someone can look it over and tell me if I am missing anything.

I basically have a main breaker at the battery. There is a head behind the steering wheel that give you access to the helm and most wires. So in the diagram I show a fuse box mounted in that area along with a neg. bus bar.

Here is the diagram....

 

[scca vette]

Re: Wiring Nightmare for a beginner.....

Looks like a good plan to me! The only suggestion I have is to make SURE that you get a fuse block with 2X the amount of fuses that you think you need. This will make things easy if you ever need to add something on the boat that requires power.

I would also look at using a fuse instead of a breaker on the main line.