Wiring Starting/House Batteries

[nola000]

I need some help with wiring a dual battery set-up on my 2001 Yamaha 150 VMax. I have searched online but cant find anything specific to my situation.
I really would like a wiring diagram...

Heres the lowdown...
- I want 2 batteries.
- I want 1 batt. for starting only
- I want 1 batt. for house(everything else electric) only
- BUT when my motor is running I want my motor to charge BOTH batteries
- Also, I want to use my ignition switch the same way its used in a car. First position as the accessories and second position to engage the starter on the motor

I have read that a motor like mine wont put out enough voltage while running to fully charge both batteries at the same time. If this is true, then is there someway to regulate how much of the charging voltage from the running engine is directed to the starting battery(since that is more important than the house batt.).

 

[Splat]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

All you need is a battery isolator. You'll wire your starting battery to your motor, than wire everything else to the house battery.

You'll need to install the isolator in between the motor charging leads, and the two batteries.

Before we go any further what kind of motor are we talking about here?

Bill

 

[nola000]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

Its a 2001 Yamaha 150 VMax.

What do you mean by "You'll need to install the isolator in between the motor charging leads, and the two batteries."?

Can you draw me a diagram? And remember that I dont want to use a battery switch like most people. I want to be able to use my ignition switch like in my car.

 

[SKEETR]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

I don't think you can isolate your starting battery like that. For charging purposes, yes, but you will need a secondary switch to power up the electronics. There may be an ignition switch with a 4th 'acc' position that could allow a 2nd power source. Not sure? I definitely wouldn't run trolling motor current thru an ignition switch though.

 

[fdmsiv]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

An isolator is like a 2 way splitter that will only let the circuit flow in one direction.

My suggestion would be this. Connect the red lead off the motor to the common post on the isolator. From the isolator run one line to the start and one line to the house. Wire all of the - terminals together.

I can't tell if you have your ignition switch just yet, but if you don't they are easy to get a Boatersworld or West Marine. Make sure you get the correct switch with acc position, start position, and probably a push to choke.

I assume that you have an acc. fuse block or something similar. I would run a battery cable from the house to the acc fuse block but with a solenoid switch in the line. The solenoid would have to be a "full time" one. I am assuming you are using the factory harness and power is supplied to the acc switch from the start battery. If this is the case then run a wire from the acc post on the ignition switch to a post on the solenoid. Run a wire from the second solenoid post to a ground.

This way your motor would charge both batteries and your house battery would run the acc. fuse block.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

If you want the charging circuit fully automatic, you need a VSR (voltage sensing relay). This will direct the charging current to one battery until it is charged and then automatically switch over to the other battery. A 50amp model should suit your needs perfectly. You can chose which battery gets charged first (either house or start).

 

[nola000]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

WOW! That was a lot of information. Thanks to all.
But that was a lot to sort through with a lot of differing opinions.

I have no electrical. I would be buying all new wires and fuse/switch panel, etc. Im not sure where to start and I dont want to spend a bunch of money on things like relays and stuff. The isolators seem to be in my price range.

Words make it very difficult to picture this in my head. Does anyone have or can make me a diagram of what they are talking about?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

Here is about the most simple, inexpensive, versatile, and fool-proof setup you can buy and the picture shows how to wire it. Just remember that all cables running from the batteries to the switch must be battery cables, not 16 gauge device wiring. Set the switch to OFF when you leave the boat unattended and you won't return to dead batteries. Set the switch to BAT 1 to start the engine and then switch to BOTH to charge both. When you anchor you can set the switch to BAT 2 to run accessories and then switch back to BAT 1 when ready to leave. These switches are about $40 right here on iBoats.

 

[nola000]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

All that "switching" is what Im trying to avoid. That is why I wanted to wire through the ignition switch the same as a car.

I know Im being a pain, but it just seems like there has to be some way to wire two batteries, one a dedicated house, one a dedicated starter, both receiving a charge when running WITHOUT using a switch that I would forget to set properly.

Im a carpenter, not an electrician, so these explanations are confusing to me without the use of a diagram.

Needless to say, Im still lost.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

The thing in the middle of silvertips picture (guest) is a rotary battery isolator that you must manually select. A VSR is fitted in place of that isolator and it is wired exactly the same, but it is fully automatic. A waterproof VSR is not cheap. A manual battery isolator is cheap.

Are you saying that you do not have the acc position on your ignition switch?

 

[Zero Balance]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

All that "switching" is what Im trying to avoid. That is why I wanted to wire through the ignition switch the same as a car.

I know Im being a pain, but it just seems like there has to be some way to wire two batteries, one a dedicated house, one a dedicated starter, both receiving a charge when running WITHOUT using a switch that I would forget to set properly.

Im a carpenter, not an electrician, so these explanations are confusing to me without the use of a diagram.

Needless to say, Im still lost.

http://www.bepmarine.com/Clusters-180.html

This system basically gives you an option. Not really that difficult. And a VSR to automatically charge whichever battery that needs attention. Not really that much different than the switch above cept for the VSR.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

Ignition switches on a boat do not generally have an ACC position. OFF is off, run is the normal running position. There is a spring loaded STart position and perhaps a push in to choke function. You cannot do what youj want to do with the ignition switch -- at least not without understanding basic electronics and building something special. Your choices are a VSR, and isolator, or a manual switch. If you don't like any of those options there isn't much else we can tell you. A manual switch is not rocket science. You turn it off when you leave the boat. BAT 1 BAT 2 and BOTH designate which of the batteries is being charged when the engine is running or being used to power the loads when parked.

 

[nola000]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

That link from BEP Marine helped tremendously! Thanks Zero Balance!

Well, its looks like a VSR is the answer Ive been looking for.

Curious. Does an isolator still require some input(like a switch or button) on my part to function the way I want?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

No -- but you lose the versatility of the switch. All three of these options have pros and cons. Manual switch is the cheapest and offers the most flexibility in operation. VSR is the most expensive, is automatic, and nearly as versatile as a switch. An isolator is in between cost-wise, less versatile than either the switch or VSR, but understand that there is some voltage loss through the isolator when charging. I think you need to go to the web and read about the operational capabilities and features of these units. When you understand the basics of each system, come back if you have more questions and we might be able to help. I certainly don't mean to be critical, but right now I'm reasonably sure you have no idea what a VSR does, how it does it, and why you should or should not have one and the same probably holds true for the manual switch and the isolator. There are plenty of detailed descriptions and test reports out there.

 

[JB007Rules]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

Here is about the most simple, inexpensive, versatile, and fool-proof setup you can buy and the picture shows how to wire it. Just remember that all cables running from the batteries to the switch must be battery cables, not 16 gauge device wiring. Set the switch to OFF when you leave the boat unattended and you won't return to dead batteries. Set the switch to BAT 1 to start the engine and then switch to BOTH to charge both. When you anchor you can set the switch to BAT 2 to run accessories and then switch back to BAT 1 when ready to leave. These switches are about $40 right here on iBoats.

In reading this, this helps me alot... I have 3 batteries total though... I have 2 deep cycle marine batts and 1 cranker battery. Do they make a 3 battery set up where I can spin the knob to "1" for my cranker batt, then start my engine, then switch to "all" to charge all 3 at once from my motor? can you mix deep cycle batteries and cranking batteries? (I have a 90HP 6cyl 2 stroke 1978 merc outboard) if i could run all 3 batteries, can I just then hook everything to a wiring block and hook my perifs to that (1000w inverter, 12v plug, stereo, bilge pump, livewell pump, power tilt, fish finder, and trolling motor?).

If not, then I would simply leave it the way it is now (cranker battery = motor, bilge pump, tilt motor, livewell pump) and 2 x deep cycles (currently wired in 24v, which i would change back to 12v parallel if i bought a new trolling motor) to power ONLY the trolling motor.

The problem I have is that I want to wire a lot of electornic things... and I would like to have the engine re-charge the batteries because I would be using these things all the time, and while i do have a charger that i can plug in when the boat is docked, its a paint because I would have to take the boat out of the water...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Wiring Starting/House Batteries

JB007Rules -- you hijacked this thread because why? You realize this complicates our ability to keep things straight. It is very annoying as well since your curve ball made me have to go back and re-read the entire thread to see what I missed. As for Your issue, you don't have enough alternator power to keep three batteries charged -- especially the two deep cycles since they would typically be deeply discharged. You cannot make a 10 minute run back to the dock and expect those batteries to be ready to go. A 1000 watt inverter????? What are you powering with that and how long do you expect the deep cycles to last running that sort of load AND a trolling motor? No -- a battery switch is a two battery switch. Since you have the deep cycles in series, you cannot connect them in parallel to a single battery which is what the BOTH setting would do and hence pop all of the 12V stuff including the engine electrical system. If you gave up the 24V system and paralleled the two deep cycles, then that output of that system can be connected to the switch but you have no way to isolate the two paralleled batteries so a weaker battery in that system will suck the life out of the better battery until the two are equal.