Won't shift into gears. somethings seems stuck.

[moneylargan89]

Recently bought a 1989 Bayliner Capri 1750 with Ford OMC 2.3l. So, first time taking the boat to the lake it started right up and everything seemed fine except for the boat seemed to struggled going into gears at first but after forcibly pushing the controlling stick and playing with the trigger it eventually went into forward but after maybe around 3-4 minutes the boat started overheating so I shut it down. The next day after doing research on this forum, I decided to change the water pump/impeller located in the stern and overheating was solved.

Now I'm still having issues with shifting. The control stick will only throttle forward and backwards when in neutral. but when the trigger is pressed and boat not in neutral the stick is stuck and will not go into reverse nor forward. the engine just rev but the prop don't budge. I thought I found the problem when upon expecting the engine area, I noticed the control cable that goes from the control stick to the shifting mechanism was severely damaged and was tapped off from previous owner but after replacing that cable with a new one the problem still persist.

I tried disconnecting the other red shifting cable from the shift bracket to see if I would be able to pull or tug on it but it seems stuck just as the control cable did but I can't see any visible damage. Is there a way to diagnose the lower cable without having to take down the stern? also is there a way to put the boat in gear manually? thanks

 

[racerone]

Check the gear oil.

 

[moneylargan89]

Check the gear oil.

I don't know why I didn't think of that. I'll check it today and report back what I find. But will the cable get stuck by having low or no gear oil in the Stern? Thanks

 

[Lou C]

Unfortunately there is not a "simple" answer to your question.
1st yes make sure there is oil in the unit, you check from the top dipstick, most Cobras hold approx 2 qts of gear oil.
Next if you cannot shift the unit by hand keep in mind that a dog clutch outdrive should not be shifted with the engine off, or the prop shaft not spinning, that alone can jam things up. So if you want to try again with the ENGINE OFF KEY OUT, have a helper spin the prop, while you try to shift it with the transom shift cable. If it shifts smoothly into FWD, Neutral and REV then good if not the drive is going to have to come off. They are not hard to take off, I like to use a drive jack to save your back. And you can check engine alignment, the bellows for water and the gimble bearing and u joints, this should be done on any new to you boat.
Next, have someone turn the driveshaft clockwise while you try to shift the unit, from FWD, to N, to REV and back to N. Use the shift rod that will be sticking up in front of the upper gear housing and watch the prop shaft to see if turns properly in FWD and REV and does not turn in N. If it won't shift properly this way there's not much you can do, probably going to have to find a mechanic who can take apart the lower unit to find out what's wrong.

If it is OK, look at the shifter bell crank in the transom mount. These can get jammed up with water deposits because water leaks into that area and when it dries up it leaves deposits, and the bell crank won't move back and forth easily. If you find that clean it all out, blast it with compressed air, lube the shaft that the bellcrank rides on with motor oil and pack the whole cavity with marine grease. Try the the remote control up in the boat, it should move back and forth with no effort. If its still stiff then you may have to replace and adjust the transom shift cable. When these are set up right they shift very easily. There should be no stiffness or jumping out of gear. The actual procedure is too long for me to type again but do a search on my user name I have posted it a few times. You will need the Cobra adjustment tools to do it right, and measure the shift rod height with the gear case in neutral first.

If you found deposits jamming up the shifter bell crank make sure to coat that gasket and all the sealing surfaces with OMC gasket sealer, this works great to keep water out of that little pocket. Also there is a drain plug (actually 2) on the side of the pivot housing, the lower one is to drain that cavity if water got in, I take these out at winterization to make sure there's no water and coat the threads and O ring with OMC gasket sealer. I have kept mine shifting well approx 15 years this way.

 

[moneylargan89]

T

Unfortunately there is not a "simple" answer to your question.
1st yes make sure there is oil in the unit, you check from the top dipstick, most Cobras hold approx 2 qts of gear oil.
Next if you cannot shift the unit by hand keep in mind that a dog clutch outdrive should not be shifted with the engine off, or the prop shaft not spinning, that alone can jam things up. So if you want to try again with the ENGINE OFF KEY OUT, have a helper spin the prop, while you try to shift it with the transom shift cable. If it shifts smoothly into FWD, Neutral and REV then good if not the drive is going to have to come off. They are not hard to take off, I like to use a drive jack to save your back. And you can check engine alignment, the bellows for water and the gimble bearing and u joints, this should be done on any new to you boat.
Next, have someone turn the driveshaft clockwise while you try to shift the unit, from FWD, to N, to REV and back to N. Use the shift rod that will be sticking up in front of the upper gear housing and watch the prop shaft to see if turns properly in FWD and REV and does not turn in N. If it won't shift properly this way there's not much you can do, probably going to have to find a mechanic who can take apart the lower unit to find out what's wrong.

If it is OK, look at the shifter bell crank in the transom mount. These can get jammed up with water deposits because water leaks into that area and when it dries up it leaves deposits, and the bell crank won't move back and forth easily. If you find that clean it all out, blast it with compressed air, lube the shaft that the bellcrank rides on with motor oil and pack the whole cavity with marine grease. Try the the remote control up in the boat, it should move back and forth with no effort. If its still stiff then you may have to replace and adjust the transom shift cable. When these are set up right they shift very easily. There should be no stiffness or jumping out of gear. The actual procedure is too long for me to type again but do a search on my user name I have posted it a few times. You will need the Cobra adjustment tools to do it right, and measure the shift rod height with the gear case in neutral first.

If you found deposits jamming up the shifter bell crank make sure to coat that gasket and all the sealing surfaces with OMC gasket sealer, this works great to keep water out of that little pocket. Also there is a drain plug (actually 2) on the side of the pivot housing, the lower one is to drain that cavity if water got in, I take these out at winterization to make sure there's no water and coat the threads and O ring with OMC gasket sealer. I have kept mine shifting well approx 15 years this way.

Unfortunately there is not a "simple" answer to your question.
1st yes make sure there is oil in the unit, you check from the top dipstick, most Cobras hold approx 2 qts of gear oil.
Next if you cannot shift the unit by hand keep in mind that a dog clutch outdrive should not be shifted with the engine off, or the prop shaft not spinning, that alone can jam things up. So if you want to try again with the ENGINE OFF KEY OUT, have a helper spin the prop, while you try to shift it with the transom shift cable. If it shifts smoothly into FWD, Neutral and REV then good if not the drive is going to have to come off. They are not hard to take off, I like to use a drive jack to save your back. And you can check engine alignment, the bellows for water and the gimble bearing and u joints, this should be done on any new to you boat.
Next, have someone turn the driveshaft clockwise while you try to shift the unit, from FWD, to N, to REV and back to N. Use the shift rod that will be sticking up in front of the upper gear housing and watch the prop shaft to see if turns properly in FWD and REV and does not turn in N. If it won't shift properly this way there's not much you can do, probably going to have to find a mechanic who can take apart the lower unit to find out what's wrong.

If it is OK, look at the shifter bell crank in the transom mount. These can get jammed up with water deposits because water leaks into that area and when it dries up it leaves deposits, and the bell crank won't move back and forth easily. If you find that clean it all out, blast it with compressed air, lube the shaft that the bellcrank rides on with motor oil and pack the whole cavity with marine grease. Try the the remote control up in the boat, it should move back and forth with no effort. If its still stiff then you may have to replace and adjust the transom shift cable. When these are set up right they shift very easily. There should be no stiffness or jumping out of gear. The actual procedure is too long for me to type again but do a search on my user name I have posted it a few times. You will need the Cobra adjustment tools to do it right, and measure the shift rod height with the gear case in neutral first.

If you found deposits jamming up the shifter bell crank make sure to coat that gasket and all the sealing surfaces with OMC gasket sealer, this works great to keep water out of that little pocket. Also there is a drain plug (actually 2) on the side of the pivot housing, the lower one is to drain that cavity if water got in, I take these out at winterization to make sure there's no water and coat the threads and O ring with OMC gasket sealer. I have kept mine shifting well approx 15 years this way.

I checked that dip stick and it's completely dry so you were on to something. Will I find gear oil at car part stores like AutoZone? And which oil do you recommend?

 

[moneylargan89]

Unfortunately there is not a "simple" answer to your question.
1st yes make sure there is oil in the unit, you check from the top dipstick, most Cobras hold approx 2 qts of gear oil.
Next if you cannot shift the unit by hand keep in mind that a dog clutch outdrive should not be shifted with the engine off, or the prop shaft not spinning, that alone can jam things up. So if you want to try again with the ENGINE OFF KEY OUT, have a helper spin the prop, while you try to shift it with the transom shift cable. If it shifts smoothly into FWD, Neutral and REV then good if not the drive is going to have to come off. They are not hard to take off, I like to use a drive jack to save your back. And you can check engine alignment, the bellows for water and the gimble bearing and u joints, this should be done on any new to you boat.
Next, have someone turn the driveshaft clockwise while you try to shift the unit, from FWD, to N, to REV and back to N. Use the shift rod that will be sticking up in front of the upper gear housing and watch the prop shaft to see if turns properly in FWD and REV and does not turn in N. If it won't shift properly this way there's not much you can do, probably going to have to find a mechanic who can take apart the lower unit to find out what's wrong.

If it is OK, look at the shifter bell crank in the transom mount. These can get jammed up with water deposits because water leaks into that area and when it dries up it leaves deposits, and the bell crank won't move back and forth easily. If you find that clean it all out, blast it with compressed air, lube the shaft that the bellcrank rides on with motor oil and pack the whole cavity with marine grease. Try the the remote control up in the boat, it should move back and forth with no effort. If its still stiff then you may have to replace and adjust the transom shift cable. When these are set up right they shift very easily. There should be no stiffness or jumping out of gear. The actual procedure is too long for me to type again but do a search on my user name I have posted it a few times. You will need the Cobra adjustment tools to do it right, and measure the shift rod height with the gear case in neutral first.

If you found deposits jamming up the shifter bell crank make sure to coat that gasket and all the sealing surfaces with OMC gasket sealer, this works great to keep water out of that little pocket. Also there is a drain plug (actually 2) on the side of the pivot housing, the lower one is to drain that cavity if water got in, I take these out at winterization to make sure there's no water and coat the threads and O ring with OMC gasket sealer. I have kept mine shifting well approx 15 years this way.

I had planned on taking the stern down today and I've read some of your past posts and others on how to do it so I hope I can pull this up. If it's ok, I'll send pics once I take it down and you can tell me if you see anything abnormal? Thanks again

 

[Lou C]

I use Mercruiser High Performance gear oil. Yes post pics when the drive is off...

 

[moneylargan89]

I use Mercruiser High Performance gear oil. Yes post pics when the drive is off...

I took down the stern today. Nothing looks broken or out of place but I'm not sure. I disconnected the cable from top of engine and still can't get no movement. I also notice the cable is showing signs of wear. I'll attached pics. I'm thinking the cable might be fried? Again, I get no play or movement from those pieces inside the stern.

 

[Lou C]

You might just have a stiff shift cable. The jacket gets cracks in it and then water can get in and corrode the cable. If you store the boat with the drive down they last longer. One thing I see is the bottom bellows was installed wrong. Those slits are supposed to face down, the way it is hot exhaust water is going right against the cable jacket.

 

[hugh g]

Why is the shift cable rubbing against the u- joint bellows?

 

[moneylargan89]

Why is the shift cable rubbing against the u- joint bellows?

I finally with you guys help was able to take the stern down and replaced that lower cable. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to also replace the other parts you've mentioned but that's going to be next. I took it back to the lake and I was able to shift forward & reverse but I did noticed a small jerk when I put it in gear. I don't know if that's normal or not?

about an hour and half being in the water the engine started running rough and eventually died out. At the time, I looked at the temp gauge and noticed the temp was relatively low compared to where to needle usually rests at. Also, I noticed the boat was taking in small amount of water in the engine compartment area either due to what you pointed out to me with the bellows? Would water inside the engine bay cause the engine to run rough and eventually die out?

I installed new spark plugs and will try again tomorrow if the weather permits it. I also took a video of the stern in the water and maybe you'll be able to tell me if the bellows needs replacing. You mentioned the cable was rubbing the U-joint bellow? I'll have to look at it tomorrow and see why that is.

 

[Lou C]

The bubbles like that are not normal, your exhaust bellows (lower bellows) is installed upside down, the slits should face down. The way it is, its exhausting hot water right against the shift cable and the upper (driveshaft) bellows.
There is a normal clunk when shifting into gear, common to outdrives that use dog shifting. More like a THUNK but should not grind, or jump out of gear.

 

[moneylargan89]

The bubbles like that are not normal, your exhaust bellows (lower bellows) is installed upside down, the slits should face down. The way it is, its exhausting hot water right against the shift cable and the upper (driveshaft) bellows.
There is a normal clunk when shifting into gear, common to outdrives that use dog shifting. More like a THUNK but should not grind, or jump out of gear.

Now I see what you guys are talking about. I just bought the boat and this is my first one. I have to take the stern off again to replace the bellows, gaskets, bearing, etc so I will make sure the slits on the exhaust bellow is facing down. Thanks.

I was starting to worry that I didn't install or adjust that cable properly and that's what was causing the thunk when going into gears but based on your explanation I believe the cable is installed correctly. No grinding or jumping out of gear was noticed last time on water so I can rule out the ESA as the source of the problem for now.

I will do some more trouble shoots today to try and figure out why the engine decided to misfire and stall after engine got hot. I will bypass the fuel tank to rule out fuel and hopefully with the spark plugs changed that will stop the problem.

One more thing; I noticed some water was leaking (from the riser where the rubber joint meets the exhaust pipe) unto the starter. I haven't had trouble starting the boat so I would never suspect that could be the issue but I've read on another post that if that starter solenoid gets wet it can cause engine to act up, misfires and even stall? Is that something I should even consider?

 

[Lou C]

That will cause starting problems but not usually running problems.
I’d go thru everything on this boat esp bellows, cable, ESA function and battery cables. Stock boat battery cables are usually crap. Remember the ESA lowers engine idle when shifting from in gear (Fwd & rev) to neutral, not when shifting into gear. If it stays engaged when in gear it will cause stalling and stumbling because the engine will be running at like 450 rpm.

 

[moneylargan89]

That will cause starting problems but not usually running problems.
I’d go thru everything on this boat esp bellows, cable, ESA function and battery cables. Stock boat battery cables are usually crap. Remember the ESA lowers engine idle when shifting from in gear (Fwd & rev) to neutral, not when shifting into gear. If it stays engaged when in gear it will cause stalling and stumbling because the engine will be running at like 450 rpm.

Ignore my ignorance here but I thought the boat only had just two gears(fwd & rev.) I don't remember if I mentioned it before this is my very first time with a boat so please don't judge lol.

Anyways, this is what I experience last time on the lake: when I went from neutral to fwd I would noticed the ESA activating the rpm drop and feel a slight jerk and the boat would start moving and as I increased throttle the boat would pick up speed respectively. But I didn't noticed or feel the boat shifting gears as you would in a car? Any ideas?

 

[Lou C]

No it does not shift gears like a car just Fwd Neutral and Reverse

 

[moneylargan89]

I misunderstood your comment sorry. So you were saying the ESA only activates when taking it out of gears and into neutral? I think that's what you were saying. I'll try taking a video of the operation hopefully later on today.

No it does not shift gears like a car just Fwd Neutral and Reverse

 

[Lou C]

Yes that is correct. What happens is that the notches or 'dogs' in the fwd and rev gears are cut in such a way that they stay engaged under power, since those small gears have to transfer all the power of the engine to the prop. So when you want it to disengage, its going to resist that and this causes the shift cable jacket to flex. That in turn moves a load lever that will trigger the interrupt switch which with the ESA module, pulses the ignition to lower the idle to approx 450 rpm. This lowering of idle rpm allows the clutch dogs to release the FWD or REV gear. Then as the gearcase goes into neutral the pressure on the cable jacket is relieved and the load lever centers itself and the interrupt switch is de-activated and your idle goes back up to 600.
BTW, your idle in gear in the water should be about 550-600, not more than that. When properly adjusted and with an engine in good tune (that can run momentarily at 450 rpm) the Cobra system works very well.
This is similar to the shift interrupt on a Merc Alpha except the OMC Cobra system should never stall the engine, if all is set up right, because it does not short out the ignition like on the Merc.

 

[hugh g]

Now I see what you guys are talking about. I just bought the boat and this is my first one. I have to take the stern off again to replace the bellows, gaskets, bearing, etc so I will make sure the slits on the exhaust bellow is facing down. Thanks.

I was starting to worry that I didn't install or adjust that cable properly and that's what was causing the thunk when going into gears but based on your explanation I believe the cable is installed correctly. No grinding or jumping out of gear was noticed last time on water so I can rule out the ESA as the source of the problem for now.

I will do some more trouble shoots today to try and figure out why the engine decided to misfire and stall after engine got hot. I will bypass the fuel tank to rule out fuel and hopefully with the spark plugs changed that will stop the problem.

One more thing; I noticed some water was leaking (from the riser where the rubber joint meets the exhaust pipe) unto the starter. I haven't had trouble starting the boat so I would never suspect that could be the issue but I've read on another post that if that starter solenoid gets wet it can cause engine to act up, misfires and even stall? Is that something I should even consider?

If you plan on changing the gimbal bearing you should get an alignment bar to check/adjust the engine alignment. It should be checked while you have the drive off even if you're not replacing the bearing. That procedure can save your coupler & a major repair. IBoats is one source or even feebay.