YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

[rfdfirecaptain]

I was doing a little catching up on my reading tonight. As I was thumbing through my April/May 2012 BoatUS magazine I found something that contradicts many of the responses to my original thread that I posted 6 months ago. (Original Thread) http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=523759

On pages 83-86 there is an in-depth look at electric powered pleasure boats. As the article states, the marine hybrid ?is gaining traction? and ?more players are entering the arena?, thus increasing choices and driving down prices. This article focused on the brand Greenline. http://www.greenlinehybrid.com/

Some posters thought it was too cost prohibitive and not enough demand for the boating industry to use this technology. Well, the proof is in the article. Here?s an online copy of it Enjoy!
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/april/RunSilentRunGreen.asp

 

[scoutabout]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

Thanks for posting this, rfd - interesting stuff and nice to see the old Elco name again. I think you are right, electric is gaining momentum. I kind of like the idea of a classy electric launch for quiet evening cruising.

At work we've had a couple of hybrids in our vehicle pool for awhile and now are adding full-on electric vehicles like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. We still need good ol' fashioned full sized, dino-burnin' pickups for our maintenance group, but slow and sure, times they is a changin'!

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

Amen scoutabout! This technology is definitely one to watch. With gas prices soaring we boaters can either demand the boating industry look for and develop alternative (cheaper) means of propulsion, or we can resolve ourselves to do more floating than cruising. Sadly, it's already come to that for me with gas at the marina about .75 over the price at highway pumps.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

A while back I read about an all electric wakeboard boat

http://wakeboardingmag.com/features/2010/01/26/first-look-epic-21se-first-electric-wakeboard-boat/

It makes a lot of sense for this application.

 

[dingbat]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

I don't see any proof of anythin. It's nothing more than a greenie feel good article

BTU is BTU. I don’t see how running a dino fueled generator to power an electric motor can be any cheaper to buy or power than a straight dino powered boat. The battery weight alone will cost you efficiency.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

Aw - ding - c'mon. It's a ways off yet, obviously - and further still before it's going to be as cheap to own and run as a gasser, but the early twitchin's of alternatives are out there. I'm no greenie by any stretch (my stinking, belching 60 year-old tractor and assorted ancient 2 strokes put the lie to that) but it's hard to argue it's not an intriguing development.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

dingbat, I'm with you on the tree hugging "feel good greenine" stuff. That's does not describe me at all. But something that DOES describe all of us boaters is that we’re going broke at the marina pumps paying well over highway tax prices for fuel that is being sold for “non-highway” use!

However, the first reason I would not agree with you is this. I’m sure many years ago there were folks just like you who said, “BTU is BTU. I don’t see how running a dino fueled generator to power an electric motor [to move a train] can be any cheaper to buy or power than a straight [coal] powered [train].”

But the ultimate reason I disagree is because this Greenline boat is no prototype. It’s in production and it’s not the only one if its kind.

 

[roscoe]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

""Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality""


Has been for many decades, nothing new here except that some relatively rich folks decided to make a boat for some billionaires.

I see nothing about costs here.
Nor is environmental impact or footprint documented.

I suspect that cost is thru the roof, and footprint is so vast you could not see across it.


I, myself, have had a tri powered hybrid boat for a long time.

 

[NYBo]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

I wonder how they manage regenerative braking like in hybrid cars.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

roscoe, you are correct electric marine propulsion has been a "reality" for many decades... at least as far back as the WWII era. The point of this information is to say to the scoffers that the technology has finally transcended over into pleasure craft as means of primary propulsion. At less than $240k dollars for a 33 footer I would say this is hardly a “billionaire’s” mega yacht. I don’t know if I’ll live long enough to see this become an affordable boat for common folks like me, but am certain it’s on its way.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

I don't see any proof of anythin. It's nothing more than a greenie feel good article

WRONG!!! Look at this ALL ELECTRIC wakeboard boat I'd referred to earlier:

http://epicboats.com/p-8298-232se.html


More and more boats are going to use electric power, it won't be overnight but it'll happen. It costs far less to run a vehicle on electricity than gasoline for several reasons (gas engines are very inefficient, the high price of gas, etc.). Electric motors are somewhere in the ballpark of 95% efficient, as is the transmission of electric power from the power plant. I personally think it's great that this technology is developing. Yeah, I run a dirty old 2 stroke and like to go fast with it - but I also realize that anytime we can do something in a cleaner fashion it's good.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

@metriccrescentwrench... Too bad there's not a "Like" button on this forum for me to click! Amen brother!!!

 

[scoutabout]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

Holy Hannaford - that wake boat is incredible.

Course the other great thing about electric is 100% torque available at zero plus one rpm...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

I have nothing against electric technology, but it will take some very heavy batteries to get me where I want to go and stay there (on the water) for 2 days, a/c, refrigeration, etc. I like oil. I have no problem with oil. There is currently no good substitue for oil on the horizon, except possibly natural gas (not desirable on the water).

And, you still need your brown (gas guzzling) launch vehicle to get your green one to the water.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

it will take some very heavy batteries to get me where I want to go and stay there (on the water) for 2 days, a/c, refrigeration, etc.

Well said... I'm in the exact same "boat"... pardon the pun. And that's the whole point of pushing this indistry to pursue "hybrid" technology at affordable pricing. Don't think for one minute the boating industry folks don't read what we write in this forum. Some of them are actually registeres users and post right along with us.

 

[QC]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

There is a huge difference between a boat that relies on a shore charge, and a "hybrid". There is absolutely no physical way to make a diesel electric combo for a sustained load like marine that is more efficient than the mechanical diesel turning the prop by itself. Add in the solar panels, and that's different. Add in shore charge, and that is different. Any claim that these "hybrid" packages are more "efficient" in a boat are false. Qualifier!! If we are talking on board liquid fuel storage.

All of this is math, the math is available and there are no inventions here. As NYBo hints at, there is no regenerative braking, so there is no source of recoverable waste heat in a marine application other than the exhaust and cooling systems. Find some way to use those like turbocharging and using the hot water to make coffee, and you have something. That is IF the goal is to save money on fuel.

And in the case of the ski boat, a bank of batteries and an electric motor, every commercial vessel on the planet would go that way if it saved money. I am not carping on this, it's simply just math. Yes electric can work for short range boats. There are electric boats all over SoCal harbors, but you can't boat like you do today with these technologies, and especially if you want an actual economic return.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

Good points QC - without all the available systems possible in a hybrid car, it's definitely and harder uphill battle for marine applications I imagine.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

I don't see any proof of anythin. It's nothing more than a greenie feel good article

BTU is BTU. I don’t see how running a dino fueled generator to power an electric motor can be any cheaper to buy or power than a straight dino powered boat. The battery weight alone will cost you efficiency.

True, but you ignored the fact of how many BTU's are turned to energy vs wasted. A boat engine and drivetrain are MAYBE 40% efficient at best. A carbed I/O from 20 years ago is probably half of that. So in 10 gallons of fuel, about 2 of it is used for moving forward. The rest is either tossed out the exhaust, burnt up for heat, expelled as noise, or wasted on engine losses/friction.

Electrical generation plants that burn fossil fuels are far more efficient. First of all, they burn natural gas, which is far cheaper and more abundant than liquid dinosaurs. Second, a combined stage natural gas turbine can reach 95%+ efficiency. Even with all the various steps to get from the power plant to your boat, the overall efficiency is still way above what a gas engine can do on its own. (And that isn't counting energy sources from solar, wind, geo, etc...)

As far as weight, its not like 30 gallons of fuel + 1100 pounds of engine is lightweight. In the case of the wakeboat above, they have upwards of 2000 pounds of ballast tanks that fill with water. In other words, there is a lot of weight that you can play with. In many cases, electric vehicles are ending up weighing about the same. Remove a heavy engine + somewhat lightweight fuel source, and replace it with medium-heavy batteries and a somewhat lightweight motor.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

Hybrid sailboats are running 6 hrs on the battery's and use solar/ regenerative charging of the prop to recharge, with the generator working as a backup if the boat requires more power.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: YES! Electric Marine Propulsion IS A Reality (in pleasure craft)

And, you still need your brown (gas guzzling) launch vehicle to get your green one to the water.

http://www.hybridcars.com/trucks/gm-hybrid-pickup-trucks.html