Tank killing

ehenry

ehenry

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I've aquired several different sizes of Propane tanks. One 250 gallon, two 100 gallon. THey are out of date and the the propane dealer gave then to me. All valves and regulators have been removed. My plan is to make several grills out of them. <br /><br />Since these tanks have had propane in them, what is the proper way to kill them so I can get them cut the way I want. All ideas will be appreciated.
 
SS MAYFLOAT

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: Tank killing

You need to purge all the propane and any oxygen/air mixture so they won't explode of course. To do this is to use dry ice and CO2. With these inside the tank it renders the tank safe. Welders use this technique to weld tanks that have leaks.<br /><br />How were you planning on cutting them? Torch, Plasma, abrasive disc saw, or sawzall?<br /><br />I used CO2 and dry ice when I cut open my 100 gallon fuel tank on my boat to clean it. I used a hole saw for the corners of my clean out holes. Then for the straight cuts, I used a sawzall. It must have worked since I'm still here in one piece. :D
 
ehenry

ehenry

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Re: Tank killing

Sawzall is more than likely how I'll cut them. These tanks have been sitting for over a year without the valves in them. But I still want to make sure they're dead before I cut in to them.<br /><br />How much dry ice would you need to put in them to do the job?
 
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deputydawg

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Re: Tank killing

My uncle used to work with these tanks a lot. Welding on them is easy if the valve is in, fill them up, close the valve and go to welding. <br />Tanks he cut open, or barrels he would cut open he "tested" first to see if they were safe. He took a long pole, wired his torch to the pole. Lit the torch and hid behind the steel door of his shop. He reached around and with a mirror stuck the torch in the entry. If it blew it was not yet safe, if it did not it was safe. <br />None of them blew up.<br />Open for a year they should be safe. With the valves out you could also rinse with soapy water, then blow out with compressed air. This should make them safe.
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: Tank killing

MayFloat,<br />What you say is Very True of Gasoline Tanks...........<br /><br />Propane is a Heavier than air Gas ... No Lingering Fumes......<br /><br />I've built projects from Portable Air Tanks out of 20lbers, to a 14'X 50' Self-powered Barge, out of 6, 1000lbers.....<br />+ Sandblasters...<br />+ Wood Stoves...<br />+ Driveway Sealer Sprayers...<br />+ Pressurized Engine Oil Primers...<br />+ Sculptures of Channel Marker Bouys...<br />+ Well, You get the Picture................ ;) <br /><br />If you take a Propane Tank,+ Remove the Valves, Plugs, Gauges, Etc...... <br />Leave it laying/standing so that there's an Open Hole at the Lowest Point for a Week........ <br />It's Totally Safe at that Point.......<br />A Tank left Standing with a Hole on the Top,+ Not on the Bottom,<br />Will remain "Hot" for a considerable length of Time.........<br /><br />Just be Careful with the Larger Tanks(425lbs,+ Bigger)..... There's Sometimes a couple of Quarts of Oil......<br />Motor Oil consistency, But, It Stinks,..... Really, Really BAD ...........<br />With the Oil Floating on top of the Propane Liquid, The Tank Insides are constantly coated,+ Don't Rust........<br /><br />Oxy/Ace Torches, are My Favorite Weapon of Choice......<br /><br />I'll Tell Ya,..........<br />The Hardest Tank to Cut/Burn-thru, is the 1st one that You Ever Cut................................................ :D
 
ehenry

ehenry

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Re: Tank killing

Thanks Bondo, I'll roll the tanks over, put all the holes down and let them stay that way for a while. I have a friend that has a plasma torch I may get him to let me use it to cut them with.
 
SS MAYFLOAT

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: Tank killing

If Bondo says you can do it that way, then it is okay. He has NEVER gave me any bad info to this date. Sometimes I get too chicken on some projects and play it too safe sometimes. But then again, I still have all my body parts that God gave me. Knock on wood! :D
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: Tank killing

I still have all my body parts that God gave me.
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Ayuh,.... Me Too..... Hard to Believe.......<br />Never thought I'd see 30..... Much Less 50, With All the Hardware,+ Most of the Software Still Intact..................... :D
 
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BoatBuoy

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Re: Tank killing

DON'T ATTEMPT IT!!! GET A PRO TO DO IT!! You will receive a lot advice about the right way to do it. They may be correct. The folks that know the wrong way are not here to respond. Do some research on bbqforum.com.
 
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rwise

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Re: Tank killing

Originally posted by Bondo:<br /> MayFloat,<br />There's Sometimes a couple of Quarts of Oil......<br />Motor Oil consistency, But, It Stinks,..... Really, Really BAD ...........<br />
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I'll second that!!
 
ehenry

ehenry

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Re: Tank killing

My neighbor is a retired welder/mechanic off the Aleyaska Pipeline and he has told the way he's done them before and said he'd be glad to help me. I tend to believe him since he's still here to tell the tales! !
 
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BoatBuoy

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Re: Tank killing

I'm sorry, but I'm obsessing on this.<br /><br />Posted by "John" on bbqforum.com<br /><br />"I use to run a propane company in Colorado. What you are wanting to do is extremely dangerous! One of our welders blew a 500 gallon tank and there was nothing left of the 100 foot building. He vaporized, well almost. Years later we were finding small parts of him all over the compound. If you insist in doing this: 1. Have a propane company come out and make sure that the tank is empty. 2. Have them take ALL the valves and plugs out of the tank. 3. Put a garden hose in the tank and wash it out. 4. Plug up the bottom holes and fill the entire tank with water. 5. Let it set for two weeks. 6. Then and only then, pass a cutting torch over an opening at the top. 7. If you don't go up in smoke, then you can cut the tank open WITH THE WATER STILL INSIDE THE TANK.<br />Good Luck,<br />John"<br /><br />In addition, don't do it near your home, else your widow will have no place to live. Have someone a good distance away with a cell phone to call 911 when needed.
 
Z

ZmOz

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Re: Tank killing

BoatBuoy, it's not very dangerous if you use a little common sense. The "welder" you refer to must have done something extremely stupid to do that. Even if you started cutting on a full tank of propane with a torch most likely the torch would be blown out by the propane and there would be no explosion. The conditions have to be PERFECT in order for the propane to explode. As long as you fill the tank up with water to displace the propane and then just leave it sitting for a few days there is nothing to worry about.
 
SS MAYFLOAT

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: Tank killing

Appreaciate your concern BoatBuoy.<br />The person getting the tips on the how to's is the one to make the decision. I have been given advice on projects. Some I have taken and some I wouldn't even think about doing. The person making the decesion should know his limitations.<br /><br />John's story is one of many. If he followed procedure, he would still be here. If the tank was properly evacuated, it wouldn't have exploded. There are some welders that may think they are good enough that they can do a quick spot or stitch weld with fuel in the tank. I have known guys to do this. All it takes is a burn through and you are departed.
 
R

rwise

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Re: Tank killing

I KNEW 2 welders that were told by the supervisor to fill a tank with exaust from the company truck and then weld up the leak in it. They did what they were told, and, well the tank exploded and killed both of them. I don't remember what was in the tank, other than unburned gas/air mix from the engine. <br />Also I have seen gas tanks from cars that have been setting for years empty blow up when burned (rip completly into 2 pieces).<br />I see old tanks made into bbq's around so there are people doing it somewhat safe. I would go with filling it with water, at least there wouldn't be any air in the tank! I have gas welded a bike tank with that before (yes I was younger then) filled with water, wouldn't do that today!
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: Tank killing

I'm sorry, but I'm obsessing on this.
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No Argument There............................ :D <br /><br />But, I'll counter with;<br />Your man John, Owns the Company....<br />He's Not a Welder,.... Even though he can no doubt run a company, he knows Little or Nothing about the Nature of the Gas he's Selling,+ as stated, He's Not a Welder.........This is Very Clear with the statement,<br />
7. If you don't go up in smoke, then you can cut the tank open WITH THE WATER STILL INSIDE THE TANK.
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Well, For the Same Reasons that you Can Boil water in a Paper Cup, There's No Way you can Ox/Ac Torch Cut Steel, with Water Inside........... Ain't Going to Happen.......<br />You could try a Carborumdum Saw Blades, But, You're going to get Awfully WET........<br /><br />As for His Other Points,<br />#1,... Ya, Right...Most of the Gas Employees I've met know Only what they've been taught about Moving,+ Storing Propane, as per any printed guidelines....No practical experience, or understanding of the Nature of the product they're working with............Not that there aren't some Very Knowledgeable folks working for Gas Co.s, But Most, Only Know Their Job.........<br /><br />#2,... Ya, Right...... They'll Laugh at you...Or, Refuse for Liability reasons, Etc.......<br />Besides, All it takes is a PipeWrench.........<br /><br />#3,...All that's going to do is,........ Nothing ..... As You've Already Spilled all that Nasty Smelling Oil on the ground..........<br /><br />#4,...No Help Here... Just Wasting potable Water........<br /><br />#5,...Ayuh,.. No Help Here Either.... Just Rusting the inside of the Tank.......<br /><br />#6,...Ayuh,...Still Wasting My Time......<br /><br />#7,... Explained Above......<br /><br />So BoatBuoy, Yes, I personally think that you're getting Very Anal about it.....<br /> Yourself,+ rwise Seem to be Confusing Propane,+ Gasoline ..............<br /><br />So, Just to recap the Nature of the Fuels We're talking about,<br /><br /> Gasoline is very stable in it's Liquid State....<br />And, between Volatile,+ Explosive in a Vaporous state......<br />And, Fumes,+ Vapor Will Linger for Damn Near Forever in Any vessel that has Ever contained it.............<br /><br /> Propane Has to be Under Pressure to get it To a Liquid state,+ is Very Volatile,+ Very Explosive in a Vaporous state(which is Anytime there's No Pressure)......<br />And, It's Fumes,+ Vapor are Easily Moved to the Lowest Point in which they can Flow,+ Do Not Linger.......<br /><br />This thread is about Propane,............ Not Gasoline .............<br /><br /><br />BTW, FYI, Propane Tanks are Very Thick Steel......... <br />20lbers are about 1/8th" thick.......<br />100lbers are about 1/4" thick.........<br />"Pigs" are 3/8ths" thick..........<br /><br />With all that said,<br /> If you follow the points laid out above,....<br /><br /><br />Yes, It's Safe............
 
D

deputydawg

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Re: Tank killing

Yes, what Bondo said.<br />The soapy water will only help get rid of the oil residue, But not needed.<br />If the tanks have been open with no valve for a while then the gas is gone. <br />If this worries you, maybe it would be better not to try it for your own sanity.<br />If you wnat to make a grill and are worried about these tanks, try a water heater tank. I have made a lot out of these, grills, branding iron heaters, animal feed troughs. <br />If your really worried about an explosion, stand back and push your torch into the tank. <br />If there would be a fire in the tank, and there will not be, it will be a flash. All of the pressure from the gas burning will go out of the open top. Once the gas is gone in the initial woof of fire it will be over.<br />I have seen one house, one brick building, and one camper that have exploded in propane explosions. All of these the explosion was very low to the ground because propane is a heavy gas and sinks. The house and camper blew when someone opened the door. This stired the gas off of the floor to an ignition scource and boom. Very little heat or fire damage. <br />Bottom line, listen to Bondo, he knows his propane.
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: Tank killing

If the tanks have been open with no valve for a while then the gas is gone.
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Gotta Add,<br /><br />As Long as the "Hole" is at the Lowest Point in the Tank................. ;) <br /><br />A tank with the "Hole" at the Top,<br />Will in fact, hold Gas for a Considerable Time..........
 
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