Here are some comments on Seacast..

Franki · May 21, 2002

hi Guys, I have been researching this seacast pretty seriously.. read about 100 sites about it.. firstly, there is a B-board of sorts on their site. the URL is: http://transomrepair.com/forums/viewforum.php?forum=3&57 It answers alot of questions, they invite you to email pics to them and they will give advice.. you can also request a hard sample to be sent to you so you can satisfy yourself. other things I gleaned from reading every post. 1. they recommend only seacast, don't leave wood in there.. lose all the wood. (ie don't leave the good wood in there and replace the rotten areas only.) 2. The seacast guy on the list suggests using a router bit in a drill or a chainsaw.. (he stated he uses the chainsaw himself) 3. It will bond well with fiberglass, but not wood or epoxy.. 4. its pink.

5. If you cut out the inner skin of your transom (or don't have one), and your boat is small enough to stand upright on its transom, then you don't need to fabricate a temporary inner wall to contain the seacast, gravity is your friend.) 6. It can be drilled easily enough once hard. 7. It reaches 160 degrees when curing, so don't use tape to block holes. I really hope I can find a way to get this stuff, it looks really good.. and I want some.

This post wasn't really necessary, but I figured I'd summarise it for you guys in case you were wondering. They also have a lot of testimonials in the board and they supply email address's so you can verify they yourself.. If you do a search on www.google.com or www.metacrawer.com for seacast, you'll find it mentioned alot. FYI.......... regards Frank

Bob_VT · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

Frank, I have been considering the uses and wonder if a re-inforcing plate or rods can be inserted into it for added strength. Bob

Franki · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

yeah, I thought the same thing.. but the question is "why"??? supposedly this stuff is 3 times stronger them marine ply, and none of us reinforce that if its not rotten, so why with the seacast?? Its not 100% accurate, but can you imagine how strong a 1 1/2 inch think piece of fiberglass would be?? this stuff is of similiar construction, so it wouldn't need any bracing.. I did toy with the idea of putting a stainless steel bar accross the top, but after two hours of reading how much stronger then wood it is, I decided it probably doesn't need it. rgds frank

Saperry · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

Frank, That seacast does sound great but hey it's their website. They have all the testimonials from people who have used it on THIER website. Maybe I am too cynical but that is not enough for me. I have not found ANYONE who has used it. Not one single living breathing human being. I emailed them a couple of weeks ago and Wolfgang Unger called me back the next day. He is the guy who invented the stuff. He said take a chainsaw and dig out the wood etc... He seemed very nice and honest, but no thanks. $375.00 for 2 buckets of fiber glass resin and ground up fiberglass. Then, in my case, I would have to glass back in the inner shell of the transom. I have talked to lots of people that have boats, people who do fiberglass work, shops that replace transoms. The all say the same thing. Too expensive and don't need it. Build it out of wood and case it in fiberglass. Seal all the holes with epoxy and it will last forever. I hope it works great for you and lasts...if you hurry up and try it before I start buying wood and glass......maybe I'll try? Best of luck Sean

Franki · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

If I can find a way to get it without shipping it from the US, I will do it straight away.. technically, its got to be stronger.. I would trust a piece of 1.5 inch think fiberglass more then I would the same in marine ply.. so why wouldn't it be good.. you don't have to take a chainsaw to it.. if you really want to, you could cut the back out of your transom... get rid of the wood.. make a jig to hold your cut out piece back in place and pour the stuff in, but that kind of ruins the point of using the stuff in the first place.. hense the chainsaw suggestion... I didn't just quote stuff from their site.. I did many many searches of the net using different search engines, and I found quiet a few testinonials from people in boards like this one.. I didn't find a single negative comment from anyone who had used it. (but many negative comments from people speculating on it without having used it.. which is not the same thing.) I would not base my decision on just their web site, I'd get my head checked if I did. As for people in the industry.. what would you suggest in their place? they know only wood, they can charge for wood replacement.. and a transom isn't something people would risk something they didn't know or understand.. doesn't mean its not good though.. start search the web and you'll find lots of people who have done it.. and you'll also find that they all sang its praises. I'm a bush mechanic,, as a result I am always willin to try something new if it sounds and tests feasable.. so this seems like an easier answer to me,, and for my money its cheaper then using marine ply, even if I do it myself.. (marine ply is really really expensive here.) regards Frank

evin300 · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

I am a little sceptical about seacast bieng stronger than wood. So it is more brittle than wood? Thats not necessarily good IMHO. Wood will flex an inredible amount before breaking, this softens the load at the all important transom seam where it meets the vertical sides of the hull. I would venture to guess that a material that is not as flexible as wood, would transfer vibration easier, and load stress. The seam mentioned above would have to be stronger than normal. Another speculation, what happens when this stuff does reach its breaking point? Will it shatter like glass and cause a complete failure? Or, if it is so strong, then what other part of the boat will be destroyed? I am no engineer, but these boats where designed from the beginning with wood in mind, I personally would stay with it, it is time tested and proven. I see few postings on thier website, and the happy customers have no doubt hit a stump or bottomed out at 50 mph. Consider this, you still have to remove the transom to use this stuff! I dont see the big savings. Sorry, not trying to ruin the party, but I would need to see a ton more information about seacast, If it was just like wood, (not stonger) then I would do it. But then, why not use wood?

Hooty · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

I've got a pretty fair background in building frp boats as assistant and later chief plastics engineer, (6yrs. Lone Star, 3yrs. Glastron and 3yrs at Sterncraft) but that was back in the dark ages (60's - 70's) and personally, I'd use the Seacast stuff in a heartbeat. It's all in the filler-material (not glass) that will make the stuff bullett-proof. I noticed the exotherm was low for a mass that large so the filler content is way up there. Break it? Not likely. g'luck & c/6 Hooty

Franki · May 21, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

I agree with hooty... for one thing, fiberglass is quiet flexable, we use wood to reinforce it.. not the other way around... secondly, if it has glass fibers, its not going to shatter.. thirdly, one of the opinions I found somewhere on the net when looking it up was from a guy that hit a rock and snapped of his skeg and prop and he rekkoned his seacast transom was perfect.. no probs.. the only thing I will point out, is that all the testimonials that are on the web (not just their site) from those who HAVE used it, are very good.. not one of them has a bad thing to say.. and if my boat's transom had been made with seacast in the first place.. I wouldn't need to be doing it again. Also, if you are at all skeptical, go to their site and order a piece of the stuff so you can satisfy yourself as to its validity. regards frank

outonbizniz · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

I did get the sample sent to me. It's hard to describe. It's Pink and seams very strong. After reading some of the posts I took my 2x2 inch square and beat it to death with a hammer. It didn't break. I then placed it in a vise and hit the portion hanging out of the vise with a hammer. Again, it didn't break. It you request a sample it does take a little time to get it. From Florida to me in Maine took 3 weeks.

Saperry · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

Thank You Evin, I also have a sample of the stuff. I apears to be strong as hell. I don't know how flexible it is but it is strong. If I could have removed the transom from my boat with out removing the top cap I probably would have used seacast. I also would be on the water now. Due to the design and construction of my boat, the top cap had to come off seacast or not.I also could not have properly fixed the floor with out removing the the top. That made seacast not worth the expense to me. To me the extra expense is the big thing. Seacast is EXPENSIVE. To do the same job with wood costs less than half what seacast would be. Propbably less than 25%. Most transoms are not made from marine plywood. Just exterior grade cased in fiberglass so water cannot get to it. All I need is one sheet of 3/4 ply to what seacast would do. Thats $25.00 instead of $375.00. I would not just pour seacast in without reglasing the joints bask to the hull so I would have to do the glass work anyway. There are alot of old boats out there with wooden transoms that are in great shape. If the boat I have had been taken better care of and built with better workmanship originally, it would still be fine. If you want an transom you can let sit out in the weather, One don't have to seal up, in a boat you let get rained in and leave full of water then seacast is your only option. I hope you like replacing seats, instruments, steering cables, carpet, etc.. because you will have a boat with one hell of a transom but nothing else. If you are going to take care of the boat then you don't need seacast. Ofcourse you could use seacast for everything couldn't you. Frank, Dis you by your boat new? If you had would you be putting a transom in it now? Sean

oldboat1 · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

got to go with Evin300 and Saperry. If Seacast is absolutely inflexible, and won't bond to the edges of the pocket it's sitting in, the stresses are going to create problems somewhere. I would think there could be some cracks along the bottom or sides -- not in the Seacast but in the skin of the boat. I guess I would want to see some results over time. If the stuff were cheaper than wood and epoxy repairs, I'll admit I would probably take another look -- maybe find a way to use the stuff. (By the way, it isn't a given that marine plywood, with its considerable expense, has to be used in the more traditional method. Construction grade ply and epoxy works just fine.) just hard-headed... Given the expense, maybe Seacast would be good for smaller DIY projects -- baitwells, for example. If you make a wooden mold, and know that the material isn't going to adhere to it, you have all kinds of possibilities. Hey -- build two boxes, with one box 1/2 to 3/4 inch smaller (outside dimension) all around. Pour a suitable amount of Seacast in the larger box, insert the smaller box to create the inner part of the mold (making sure the stuff oozes up the sides), and you should have a Seacast box when it cures. If the stuff doesn't adhere to wood, you simply take out the inner box and lift out your new baitwell -- right?

SCO · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

I like the idea of seacast, but have gone with exterior ply for my transom project partly because I don't want to chance it like you say Frank, but also because I know the wood solution will work and I have a good opinion of wood and have learned how to use it over the years. The wood on this production boat was not prepped like I am doing now , and I will not be worried about rot. Had I taken the deck off , I would have given more consideration to seacast. Case by case . The next new boat I buy though will have to have composite transom and stringers. The industry is flying in that direction.

Franki · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

Hi Guys, I have just started conversation with seacast about the possibilites of setting up a distribution point for seacast in Australia. They show a great deal of interest in the idea.. so it may well go ahead. As for the properties of Seacast, and its flexability, it apparently bonds very well to fibreglass so thats not really an issue.. as for flexability, look at this page: http://www.transomrepair.com/testimon.htm The big boat at the top is NOT owned by seacast, but it has one he!l of alot more load on the transom then any of our boats would.. you can probably verify the testimonial by contacting the manfacturer... Also read the artical that goes with it: http://www.news-journalonline.com/2001/Jun/2/biz99.htm It would have to have some flexability.. after all, its resin based, its not cement..

also keep in mind that a greatly flexing transom will introduce weakness in the fibreglass and gelcoat, which is not designed to flex to any great degree, so a more rigid transom may well keep the external fibreglass of the transom in better nick then it otherwise would be. Also the resin stands a good chance of having even or better impact absorbsion then a properly glassed in ply transom. (Impact absorbtion is directly related to flexability, but it's not the same thing.) I love the idea of never having to worry if the calking behind my transducer, speedo pitot, engine mounts etc is leaking.. and I think you will find that even those old boats that still have solid wooded transoms would still fail a moisture test.. its nearly impossible to completely lock water out with fibreglass.. remember, water will eventually be absorbed by the fiberglass itself, so its inevitable that it will eventually start the wood rotting.. most people just hope they don't still own the boat when that becomes an issue. I do agree that its expensive, which is unfortunate, but if you are like me and keep boats for long periods and give them a very hard workout, then never having to do it again has to be a good thing. One last point,, as SCO pointed out, composite transoms are the future... manufacturers are doing it now.. so this is not untested technology.. I am a paranoid sort of person, the idea of fungus and bacteria in my transom makes me uncomfortable.. so anything that stops that from happening has to be a good thing.. and since I have an overloaded transom, (100HP motor on a boat rated (I think) for roughly 85HP, but I don't go WOT anyway.) the seacast is some extra insurance for me. (also we have no laws that I know of with regards to HP ratings over here.) Anyway, I guess thats all I have to say about it right now, I will wait and see what happens with them and take it from there.. I really hope for the chance to test it myself and see if its as good as it sounds. thoughts anyone??

regards Frank

oldboat1 · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

good stuff, Frank -- good research. I'll keep watching and listening. Curt

Franki · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

Sorry for yet another post, but another point occured to me.. I am a web/cgi programmer by day, so I think of my time in terms of dollars. You are comparing seacast to the cost of the wood.. but thats not taking everything into acount. If you consider Seacast.. (in my case in this example). 1. I cut a rectangular piece out of the top of my transom for the full width I can access. (not the whole transom, there is 1/2 a foot to each side I can't reach directly). 2. I use a fence post drill or heaven forbid a chainsaw

slide the CS blade into the wood vertically and run from end to end.. then use a thin steel tire pry to collapse the wood and remove it, (the more I look at my transom the easier thats looking.) the areas I can't reach directly could be reached diagnally once the center wood is removed.. so I now have a transom with both skins intect and only a rectangular piece removed at the very top. and completely empty of wood. 3. I mix and pour in the Seacast and fill it to the brim, (I think one pail would probably do mine.) let it cure.. drill the relevant holes and give it a week or so to fully harden.. 4. Then I get a piece of C channel the same internal width of the transom, (could be made of anything, But I'd probaly go with stainless since I can get it cheap.) I put that piece over the rectangular hole I created and bolt it down directly into the seacast. done, mount the motor, go boating.. I think I could do that in less then 8 hours of labour... Now look at the wood alternative. 1. Remove entire inner or outer transom FG except for an inch around the outside. 2. chisel out old wood. 3. Get two pieces of external ply totally glass over both of them and temporaily screw them together. (after carefully cutting them to exactly match the contour of the hull, (mine is a clinker style, so that would be rather inticate work.) make sure no wood is left unglassed. 4. Install said wood into transom, fill in all the gaps you leave around the outside.. and glass around the outside to provide the much needed bonding.) 5. reinstall the outer skin. (or if you have done it the way I am used to, the new glassed wood becomes the new outer surface which is then painted with two pack to match the rest of the hull) 6. fix any imperfections you left from doing all of that. 7 make sure everything that is bolted to the transom is properly calked. 8. reinstall everything go boating. The second options, (wood) would take much longer for me to complete. (I'm guessing about 30 hours or more of labour)., is much more intricate work. boats appearance has changed fairly dramatically and needs to be addressed. on the other hand, all thats changed appearance wise on the seacast version is that I now have a nice stainless mounting point on the top of my trasom.. the glass looks identical inside and out. .(why wouldn't it? its the same glass.) It might be just me, but with time being money.. the Seacast starts looking like a much more attractive option.. Just something else to consider... regards Frank

Saperry · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

Good Job Frank I'm still using wood.

outonbizniz · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

The final factor (there are many others) that forced my decesion to use Seacast is that my Glastron has a curved transom. The wooden transom I took out of it was flat. It wasn't attached to the outer shell at the outside edges. Instead of trying to build a wooden curved transom, I can pour in Seacast and let it take it's shape.

outonbizniz · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

BTW Frank..see my post "My endless project..." with pics per your request.

Franki · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

.. to each his own... in your situation, I might use wood too, don't know.. in my case, I want it done as fast and with as little effort on my part as possible.. I'd rather be out fishing... Isn't choice fantastic? rgds frank

Franki · May 22, 2002

Re: Here are some comments on Seacast..

outonbizniz I have already seen the photos.. looks like a fun project.. but I'll bet you'll be glad to have it finished... I saw the pictures of how the old transom was, and it sure didn't look like a pro job to me.. at least its entirely different to the ways I see it done over here... I hope you'll keep us up to date on the project and keep the photos up to date

rgds Frank PS, every time I finish something on my boat, I find something else that needs doing.. do you guys have that problem?

Here are some comments on Seacast..

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