V6 150.......... Problem peeing

[Capt. Crunch]

Hi, I'm new here and love what I've read so far. Also done some searches and found very relevant stuff... just a little overwhelmed.

I have a V6 150 (guessing 1978-79 based on the serial) that came as a "repower in progress" on the 2nd boat I picked up. Got the manual today and got it all wired up and started. Here's the problem- the peeing is somewhat sporadic. It seems to be sporadic at various rpm's, not just idle. When it stops, it looks as though it surges or "builds up" to a point where it will shoot out and also come out the exhaust relief ports below the pee hole. After that it might take anywhere from 1 - 5 seconds to build back up. I'm afraid to run it too long to get any more info and I'm also hesitant to take the rpm's up too high seeing how I'm just running it in the driveway on the garden hose. Also seeing some sporadic drips from the relief valve hole.

Thermostat? Poppet? Diaphragm? Impeller? The motor looks to be well taken care of but the hose going to the pee hole was disconnected and I removed some inhabitants from the line. Maybe I didn't get it all out?

Any help with a plan of attack would be appreciated... Thanks.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

What is the serial #?
You can run a piece of weed eater line through the hose from the motor out.
If it's a new to you motor, i'd get the impeller and the lower unit oil changed as well.

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Change the impeller and thermostats first thing. You have no way of telling the condition of these components if you didn't install them yourself. If the problem persists, you will want to look further at that point.

Do you have a temperature and a pressure gauge installed on this motor?

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Serial is 5432708 Lower oil looked new at the start but I'll change it before getting it out. Planning on the water pump rebuild kit too.

Thanks

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Ordering the impeller over the weekend and I'll order the t-stat too. I'll feel better just having the piece of mind of the new impeller. Do you guys recommend the full rebuild kit seeing how I don't know the history?

No gauges installed but looking to add the temp gauge asap.

Thanks again.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

I forgot to say Welcome to iBoats!
If checking the pee hole line and changed impeller give a good stream, should be good. I am in no means an expert on this, just my opinion.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Yes, get the whole kit if possible. You might get in there and realize you need it. Pressure gauge would be a good idea....Especially right now after you change the waterpump. This will give you a good baseline water pressure with a new pump and from that you can tell down the road when it's getting low and time for a new pump...With a pressure gauge you can also see if you have lost water flow right away. A temp gauge may take some time to react.

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Do the whole kit, doesn't cost much more, if any.

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it. This site is great. I'll post my results as soon as I get the new parts installed.

Thanks again.

 

[gss036]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

You mentioned water drips frpm the poppet drain hole. All the above advise sounds good, but, if there is water dripping, then I would suggest that you also change the poppet valve/diaphram assy as well. Kind of sounds like maybe the poppet is open and letting all the water out through the exhaust instead of the thermostats open as they are supposed to do. There is no kit for the poppet so you will need to order individual parts. At least the diaphram, carrier, spring, both gaskets and grommet.

 

[andy6374]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

I would suggest that you also change the poppet valve/diaphram assy as well.

Agreed!

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Thanks for the advise Gary! I'm actually assembling a list of everything I can replace as a precautionary measure, so I really appreciate the details.

The little bleed hole had some calcification around the lower edge draining downward, so I'm guessing this might have been an issue for at least the last few trips for whoever owned the motor. Luckily all the parts I'm looking at are relitavely low dollar, so I can replace all of them and feel much safer.

So far, I'm looking at this:

75692 THERMOSTAT (2) $9.89

27 - 62386 GASKET, THERMOSTAT (2) $1.79

46 - 42579A 4 WATER PUMP REBUILD KIT $31.49

64877 DIAPHRAGM $5.39

24 - 64878 SPRING $3.59

65848 CARRIER $1.79

27 - 78690 GASKET, RELIEF VALVE PLATE (2) $1.79

27 - 88907 GASKET, RELIEF VALVE PLATE (2) $1.79

25 - 64872 GROMMET $1.79

86596 POPPET $4.49

Two different part #'s are listed for the GASKET, RELIEF VALVE PLATE. The diagram shows two used in the rebuild, but the parts list states 2 of both. For $1.79 maybe I'll just order both and see which one matches during disassembly. I'm open to more suggestions for the list before I order. Thanks everybody. I can't wait to get her going strong and drop the boat in the water!

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Sorry, but I can't resist............

Wow, that's a problem and you should get to a doctor!

And if the engine is doing the same thing I would continue with your planned maintenance!

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

One last question before ordering my list of stuff. Is there a gasket or seal I also need to order when I drop the lower to do the water pump rebuild? My manual doesn't account for it in the pictures, but the parts listing where I'm ordering from lists some very expensive gasket sets and seal kits...

Thanks again for all the help. I just got my controls ordered and will order all these parts tomorrow after I drop the lower to see if I need to order the rebuild kit for the with a shaft nut/without a shaft nut motor.

 

[ncfish1]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

All the gaskets you need are in the pump impeller kit. There are no seals associated with the impeller replacement or lower unit replacement. When replacing the poppet assembly, pay close attention to the new spring. Make sure the height and diameter are the same as the one coming out. Some non-OEM manufatured parts are not the same and if the spring is too strong, you will be taking the poppet out again. One way to verify is after (or before) you replace the poppet assembly, attach a hose to the upper flush connection and pressurize. You should have a cavitating sound that indicates the poppet is working. You will also see the tale-tale water stream coming out intermittently.
Also, seeing water coming from the exhaust port near the tale-tale when running is normal (not a gusher, but some).

 

[J.L.]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

You may not have a problem at all. some of the V6's tell tale were routed to indicate after the t stats are opened. Does the flow become consistant after warming up good?
Good idea to service the water pump every year. This is the weakest link on this motor and its too easy to service not to do it frequently.
The part number you gave for the pump kit seems unfamiliar to me. It might be the number to the base or just an impeller repair kit. The correct number for the upper pump kit is 46-96148a8. This kit is about $45 and includes housing, impeller,wear plate, gaskets and misc. hardware.
Previous post is correct about poppet kit. Very important not to get the wrong tension of spring. Could cause engine to overheat at mid throttle. Any water coming out of bleed hole replace the diaphragm and gaskets.

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Thanks ncfish and JL. I appreciate all the opinions I can get. The problem is that I'm afraid to even let it get to the warmed up stage for fear of something going bad. I just got really nervous about the stream. It seemed as though the tell-tale would only flow when the water built up to the point that it came out the exhaust relief ports also. Now that I think about it, I can't recall the tell-tale having a stream without seeing an overflow at those ports too.

The part I posted for the pump rebuild kit was kind of up in the air until I get the lower off I guess. They list one kit for the ones that don't have a drive shaft nut and another for the ones that have the nut (according to dougrussell). I guess I need to get in there and find out later today before ordering. From what you said JL, I'm guessing the other is the more common of the two and probably the one I need.

I really appreciate all this info! I'm more than willing to tear into things and get crazy with 2-stroke rebuilds (Sno-X and Moto-X machines), but the outboard parts are new to me.

Thanks,
Dennis

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Ok, I've been trying to do one step (water pump rebuild, poppet assembly rebuild, and thermostats) each night so I can pinpoint which one actually corrects the problem. I did the water pump rebuild last night and got it completed and running today. That didn't solve it. I still have an intermitant stream that fluctuates on and off when the exhaust relief overflows (usually occurring when it is given throttle). I got into the poppet assembly tonight and thought for sure that was it because the diaphrgam was wasted and stuck on one edge. I replaced everything involved in the assembly with the exception of the carrier (looked to be pressed into the block and held in by punch marks). I did do the grommet inside it though. After reassembly and startup, everything looked better. As water pressure built up, I had a steady (but slightly weak) stream. The stream seemed to fade and I didn't notice water from the tell-tale or the exhaust relief overflow and decided to shut it down. Upon restarting, I seemed to have a louder exhaust note and no sign of cooling water. Shut it down again as the head temp increased rapidly.

I'm starting to lose my mind. I thought I had it when I saw a somewhat steady stream but then it all was lost. Any ideas? Something not quite right and sticking in the poppet? My situation was the same after the water pump rebuild so I'm somewhat confident I did that right. I took the poppet assembly apart again and reassembled it hoping that maybe the diaphrgam just got hung up on a gasket that I didn't align correctly but didn't try it again for fear of waking the neighbors as it's getting late...

Thanks.

 

[diaric]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

I can't get anything out of the tell tale on mine using the earmuffs, but it works fine in a barrell or on the lake. different quality earmuffs will work or not work with some motors. when your not seeing anything coming from tell tale, it might not be all motor troubles

 

[Capt. Crunch]

Re: V6 150.......... Problem peeing

Ok guys and girls,... I'm officially[colour=red] losing my mind[/colour]. After rebuilding the water pump and giving it another trial run, I found myself back where I started- intermitant peeing that coincided with an overflow out the exhaust ports that sit just below the cowling. My next job was to rebuild the poppet assy. After doing that I had a weak stream, followed by no stream. I got paranoid and stopped the motor. I installed the old crusty poppet parts and again, no stream and no overflow...

I got even more paranoid and assumed that my water pump rebuild must have been wrong. I droped the gear casing and put my old water pump upper end back in. Before bolting back up, I removed the poppet assy. entirely and pressurized the water tube. I saw water flow freely from the opening. I installed my new poppet assy. parts (again) and pressurized with the thermostats and covers removed. Water flowed freely from the thermostat areas. I did it again with more pressure and heard the "cavatation" noise mentioned from the poppet and then saw water stream out the 90 degree fitting on the blank side of the poppet assy. (while also streaming from the t-stat areas).

I bolted everything back up with the old impeller and upper pump half but kept the t-stats out and the covers off. About 10 seconds after starting her up, I saw water flowing from the t-stat cover areas. It was streaming from the port opening, and then would shift to the starboard opening if I pluggedd the hole, or was split evenly if I put a little restriction on the port hole. Increases in throttle resulted in greater flow from the openings. At the same time, no water at all flowed from the tell-tale or the exhaust overflows just below the cowl. I didn't see a ton of water, if any, comming out the exhaust through the prop either. The only other area that had a steady flow were the slots just above the cavatation plate (above the prop).

I have no more ideas, just questions.

Does my water pump sound as though it's doing it's job?

Should I have steady water comming out the slots above the cav. plate towards the back?

Should I have some water comming out the exhaust overflow below the cowl?

Should I have water comming out the exhaust through the prop? (don't have my other boat home to see for myself)

I am seconds away from plugging up my old pee-hole and creating a new one from the flow at the top (I know... LOL, but I'm honestly so numb from troubleshooting I can't even laugh...) ).

Sorry again for the step by step narrative and endless questions. I just don't know what else to do.

Here are some flow pics: