2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

[steelespike]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

Just had another thought.I think a flimsy transom might hide some of the vibration.I think the very ridged transom transmits more vibration to the hull.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

Two cylinders in unison like a Harley.Have you ever seen a Harley Davidson run and idle talk about vibration!
And its present all through the rpm range.I assume the cylinders fire at 180 degrees of each other.
I wonder if what ever vibration damperes they are using may be defective or installed incorrectly.I wonder if
you could add some sort of damper to the transom.Perhaps a rubber pad the full width of the treansom that is not bounchy perhaps it would absorb some of the vibration.Or maybe some sort of liquid filled bladder hung on the inside of the transom might resist vibrating with the motor.Kind of like a jell pack used in treating injuries.
Maybe it is a bent or out of balance driveshaft.I wonder if you could run the motor momemtarily without
the lower unit attached?To see if it is smoother.

Thanks for replying SS,

Great comments and ideas! However this "ain't a harley" This motor both pistons travel in unison and not opposed as one might think. Kinda weird, huh, but ya would suppose those engineers would know best, right? Problem is, according to Suxukkis own product brochure, this motor has a "re-designed mounting system which provides smooth and quiet running that is vibration free." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! What a joke! And the joke is on me!

CAVEAT EMPTOR! (and, ya getz what ya payz for!)

regards and thanks again for your input!

....BB

ps: suzuki? nevermore!

 

[lakensea]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

If I remember correctly, you have stated that you purchased this engine in the crate, and the dealer did not run the engine for you. That is in violation of the Suzuki dealer agreement as all engines must have a PDI (pre-delivery inspection) form filled out and signed by the dealer and you. Part of that form pertains to running the engine and showing you how the engine is operated. If at that time you were not satisfied with the engine, you should have not taken delivery. You would either have the dealer fix the problem before you paid him, or had him uncrate another engine for you.

As far as Suzuki warrranty, there are no problems, only problem dealers. If a Suzuki regionel tech rep instructed the dealer to replace the flywheel - they will cover it. If the dealer just started replacing parts without reason, then they will not cover it. The smart thing for the dealer to have done would have been to swap a flywheel from another engine to rule that out. Has your selling dealer at least shown you how another engine runs so you will know if it's all Suzuki engines (as you are now saying), or just your's (which would confirm that there actually is a problem with your engine)? If they all run that way and you have purchased from a reputable dealer, he should refund your money. If it's just your engine, then believe me, if this dealer has a quality service department, then Suzuki will stand behind him and you 100%. Find a dealer in you area that is a Suzuki Super Service award winner, or better yet a Cutting Edge dealer. Those dealers will have a highly rated service department that will either fix it, or work with the proper person at Suzuki to get it fixed right.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

The Harley pistons go in unison ,up and down together.
They are in a V but move together.Thus the vibration.
This also gives them their unique sound
now imitated by other companies.
In the 1920s Pontiac had a V8 with a 180 Degree crank this caused a vibration.They actually had a crank driven rod that pushed against the frame opposite the shake.
Anyway good luck with your vibration.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

If I remember correctly, you have stated that you purchased this engine in the crate, and the dealer did not run the engine for you.

That is correct

That is in violation of the Suzuki dealer agreement as all engines must have a PDI (pre-delivery inspection) form filled out and signed by the dealer and you. Part of that form pertains to running the engine and showing you how the engine is operated. If at that time you were not satisfied with the engine, you should have not taken delivery. You would either have the dealer fix the problem before you paid him, or had him uncrate another engine for you.

I was given the checkout form filled out to sign, however, NONE of the things had been done that I was supposed to sign for, so the "young lady" said it was OK and I didn't have to sign. I was delivered the motor in the original factory box and "that was that."

As far as Suzuki warrranty, there are no problems, only problem dealers.

That statement is your opinion only and is NOT factual. I am having problems with both the dealer (who says it is Suzukis problem to back their warranties) and Suzuki (who says I don't have a problem.)

If a Suzuki regionel tech rep instructed the dealer to replace the flywheel - they will cover it.

I have no idea of whether this will (or has) happened, I just know the dealer told me he was stiffed, and since Suzuki won't talk to me.... well, there you have it.

If the dealer just started replacing parts without reason, then they will not cover it.

That would not seem to be my problem.

The smart thing for the dealer to have done would have been to swap a flywheel from another engine to rule that out.

That was "allegedly" done, but I was not invited to the show.

Has your selling dealer at least shown you how another engine runs so you will know if it's all Suzuki engines (as you are now saying), or just your's (which would confirm that there actually is a problem with your engine)?

No.


If they all run that way and you have purchased from a reputable dealer, he should refund your money.

I agree. But, guess what? The dealer says it's Suzuki and Suzuki won't talk to me. I have asked for a refund. (All I want is a motor that doesn't rattle your teeth!)

If it's just your engine, then believe me, if this dealer has a quality service department, then Suzuki will stand behind him and you 100%.

Wrong.

Find a dealer in you area that is a Suzuki Super Service award winner, or better yet a Cutting Edge dealer. Those dealers will have a highly rated service department that will either fix it, or work with the proper person at Suzuki to get it fixed right.

Suzuki will not talk to me. I have tried. All I get is "the motor is running according to factory specs." How would I know this since I have NOT talked to anyone at Suzuki that gives a hoot? And, oh yeah, Suzuki says to take my motor to an "authorized dealer" if I'm having problems. How many "authorized dealers" do you have to go to before anyone knows what the "hay" they are doing? Any complete moron could look at this and see that the motor vibrates like crazy!




but I appreciate your input! THANKS!

.........BB

ps: CAVEAT EMPTOR (and......suzuki, nevermore! ...you get what you pay for!!!!!)

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

The Harley pistons go in unison ,up and down together.
They are in a V but move together.Thus the vibration.
This also gives them their unique sound
now imitated by other companies.
In the 1920s Pontiac had a V8 with a 180 Degree crank this caused a vibration.They actually had a crank driven rod that pushed against the frame opposite the shake.
Anyway good luck with your vibration.

Thanks for replying, Spike.

The "V" motion of the Harley and the motion of my outboard are different because the two pistons in the "V" are not moving up and down in the same direction (different directions by the angle of separation of the "V") as you clearly state, whereas my two pistons are (no angle of separation in the direction of movement, just on top of one another.)

Thanks for replying!

BB

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

<<That is in violation of the Suzuki dealer agreement as all engines must have a PDI (pre-delivery inspection) form filled out and signed by the dealer and you. Part of that form pertains to running the engine and showing you how the engine is operated. If at that time you were not satisfied with the engine, you should have not taken delivery. You would either have the dealer fix the problem before you paid him, or had him uncrate another engine for you.>>


You've REALLY got me thinking about this one, and I'll be doing some seriouse checking! Thanks, BB

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

Just wanted to bring this up again in case there may be any new input.

Regards and thanks, BB

PS: STILL SHAKING, RATTLING & ROLLING! This motor is a joke!

 

[hrafnin]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

if u know were the adj nozzle is, drill a hole in the small plate that stops u from adjusting it, then open it 1/4 turn and your engine is going to be fine. the plate cover is about 4-5mm diam on the starboard side of the carburator. be careful not to drill to deep, use a 2mm drill and a small screwdriver to remove cover (its aluminium easy to remove)

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

if u know were the adj nozzle is, drill a hole in the small plate that stops u from adjusting it, then open it 1/4 turn and your engine is going to be fine. the plate cover is about 4-5mm diam on the starboard side of the carburator. be careful not to drill to deep, use a 2mm drill and a small screwdriver to remove cover (its aluminium easy to remove)

...thanks for replying hrafnin,

...don't think you read the entire thread here but this is not a mixture problem ...it is a VIBRATION problem at certain throttle settings but not ALL throttle settings ...

...maybe you are referring to the intermittent "missing" and I think you may be referring to that...

...I have been in touch with some REALLY nice folks at "Browns Point Marine Services" in New Jersey... they don't know me, but after contacting them on their website, they have expressed a GENUINE interest in helping me resolve my problem... stay tuned...

...regards, BB

....ps: "Browns Point Marine Services" are beginning to restore my faith in humanity...CUSTOMER SERVICE, the way it should be!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

the PDI is a legal document and in your case appears to have been forged.
I have seen suzuki pull franchises over loose motor sales.
had a trained tech run the correct PDI on that motor this post would most likly have never occured.
thats why when I was a suzuki dealer/tech in the 90's we would not sell anything loose.
this year Yamaha started seril numbering the sheets and including them in the crate. no PDI no warrenty.

so while the engine may or may not have problems the issue stated when the suzuki dealer broke his franchise agreement with suzuki.
now your hanging in the wind.
I would try a cyl power balance test at the RPM the vibration is the worst at.

I will have to ask a friend of mine as to the crank design.
having both pistons moving at the same time in the same direction will require some type of counter balance mechanism.
while its common to spark the cylinders simultaneously its uncommon to have both pistons at TDC at the same time.
but this issue is why even back in the late 80's and early 90's Suzuki mandated that each and every engine be correctly set up and test run by a competent trained tech.
Yamaha is doing it this year,thank goodness.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

the PDI is a legal document and in your case appears to have been forged.
I have seen suzuki pull franchises over loose motor sales.
had a trained tech run the correct PDI on that motor this post would most likly have never occured.
thats why when I was a suzuki dealer/tech in the 90's we would not sell anything loose.
this year Yamaha started seril numbering the sheets and including them in the crate. no PDI no warrenty.

so while the engine may or may not have problems the issue stated when the suzuki dealer broke his franchise agreement with suzuki.
now your hanging in the wind.
I would try a cyl power balance test at the RPM the vibration is the worst at.

I will have to ask a friend of mine as to the crank design.
having both pistons moving at the same time in the same direction will require some type of counter balance mechanism.
while its common to spark the cylinders simultaneously its uncommon to have both pistons at TDC at the same time.
but this issue is why even back in the late 80's and early 90's Suzuki mandated that each and every engine be correctly set up and test run by a competent trained tech.
Yamaha is doing it this year,thank goodness.

Thanks for your input rodbolt,

You may have hit the nail on the head with the possibility of the "forged" document. I wonder if I wanted to see it "they" would show it to me? Interesting ideas and thanks again!

Regards, BB

PS: I have been in contact with Browns Point Marine Services in NJ (apparently a large Suzuki dealer) Believe it or not they have been interested and trying to help me resolve this. Stay tuned!

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

Browns Point Marine Services in NJ ...on the phone with the friendly folks today ...they actually came up with two possible reasons for my DF9.9MLK suzuki vibrating like it does ...will need to find a dependable local suzuki dealer (I've already tried two) to try the fixes...

...looks like I was NOT given the proper PDI when I picked up the boxed motor ...seems the dealer (Bayracer Marine in Havelock, NC) was supposed to go over a check list before delivering my motor so avoid the kinds of problems I'm having but when Bayracer asked me to sign the checklist (with NONE of the work actually having been done) and I said I wouldn't sign it because the work hadn't been done, and then was told I didn't have to sign it... It didn't occur to me that I NEEDED to have the PDI done and should have insisted on it (I think it is suzuki's policy to have those done and I understand other OB manufacturers, as well)... needless to say hindsight is 20/20.

...anyway, am looking forward to possibly getting this resolved at some point, thanks to BPMS!

...regards, BB

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

I have had no dealings with Browns point.
I hear all good about them though.
there is a dealership in Saluda VA,near williamsburgh, that I have delt with for about 20 yeaqrs called Fridays marine, you may wish to talk to Phil Friday and see what he says.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

I have had no dealings with Browns point.
I hear all good about them though.
there is a dealership in Saluda VA,near williamsburgh, that I have delt with for about 20 yeaqrs called Fridays marine, you may wish to talk to Phil Friday and see what he says.

thanks rodbolt,

saluda va, ya can't get there from here (ha! ha!) ...seriously about a five hour drive one-way ....but thanks for the info ...looking for BPMS to suggest someone in my area (they are supposed to be talking to suzuki) ...we'll see ...just that they have at least shown interest in my situation ....not what I've been getting locally!....

...regards, BB

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

Browns Point Marine Services in NJ ...on the phone with the friendly folks today ...they actually came up with two possible reasons for my DF9.9MLK suzuki vibrating like it does ...will need to find a dependable local suzuki dealer (I've already tried two) to try the fixes...

...looks like I was NOT given the proper PDI when I picked up the boxed motor ...seems the dealer (Bayracer Marine in Havelock, NC) was supposed to go over a check list before delivering my motor so avoid the kinds of problems I'm having but when Bayracer asked me to sign the checklist (with NONE of the work actually having been done) and I said I wouldn't sign it because the work hadn't been done, and then was told I didn't have to sign it... It didn't occur to me that I NEEDED to have the PDI done and should have insisted on it (I think it is suzuki's policy to have those done and I understand other OB manufacturers, as well)... needless to say hindsight is 20/20.

...anyway, am looking forward to possibly getting this resolved at some point, thanks to BPMS!

...regards, BB

The plot thickens!

BPMS gave a couple of good pointers which I have not been able to get a local suzuki dealer. Thanks BPMS!

Unfortunately, what I REALLY wanted to get from BPMS was for them to use their "clout" with suzuki to get a tech rep to contact me ( via ANY authorized suzuki dealer in my area, would have sufficed. ) Nothing came of that with BPMS simply stated they had done all they could to help me. Understandable, since they are in NJ and I am in NC.

Suzuki is ignoring me for some reason. I'll continue trying to find another ( the third ) dealer in this area ( Beaufort, NC ) that can authenticate my claim about this motor. Maybe with three authentications suzuki will listen?

I have an invoice from Bayracer Marine in Havelock, NC ( the selling dealer ) stating over $500 work they alleged to have done on this motor, with the statement that the motor was still vibrating afterwards. Also stated is that another new motor ran the same as mine. As far as I know, suzuki has not had any of their factory techs look at this and are simply relying on the word of the selling dealer. I have two authorized techs witness the problem, but NO action from suzuki. My motor still does not run as advertised.

Stay tuned as this is not over, yet.

Regards, BB

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

BB,

Suzuki is unlikely to do anything to solve your complaint as long as the engine is in your possession. It needs to be at an authorized Suzuki dealer awaiting a Suzuki Field Service Reps visit. Suzuki's warranty policy operates under specific guidelines. Step away from the process and zero happens to resove it. Suzuki enjoy's a very good reputation for resolving valid warranty issues, but they rely solely on the local dealer to act on their behalf. In your case the local dealer(s) haven't been much help so far, but that is still the only process that Suzuki can/will follow. My best advice is to get it in to a yet another dealer. Let them determine that the vibration is normal for that engine or not. If it isn't normal then give them a chance to figure out why. If they can't then stay on them to get their Suzuki rep to come by. This might take up to two weeks. If the rep doesn't come in by then call Suzuki and ask for Larry Vandover. He's the top round eye at Suzuki. Calmly explain to him what, why and where. He's a nice, fair guy and I'm sure that if there is a an abnormal vibration he will get it taken care of for you. Also you need to keep in mind that advertising phrases like "smooth running", "vibration free", etc., are relative and are not absolutes. Perception is everything when it comes to performance issues.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

BB,

Suzuki is unlikely to do anything to solve your complaint as long as the engine is in your possession. It needs to be at an authorized Suzuki dealer awaiting a Suzuki Field Service Reps visit. Suzuki's warranty policy operates under specific guidelines. Step away from the process and zero happens to resove it. Suzuki enjoy's a very good reputation for resolving valid warranty issues, but they rely solely on the local dealer to act on their behalf. In your case the local dealer(s) haven't been much help so far, but that is still the only process that Suzuki can/will follow. My best advice is to get it in to a yet another dealer. Let them determine that the vibration is normal for that engine or not. If it isn't normal then give them a chance to figure out why. If they can't then stay on them to get their Suzuki rep to come by. This might take up to two weeks. If the rep doesn't come in by then call Suzuki and ask for Larry Vandover. He's the top round eye at Suzuki. Calmly explain to him what, why and where. He's a nice, fair guy and I'm sure that if there is a an abnormal vibration he will get it taken care of for you. Also you need to keep in mind that advertising phrases like "smooth running", "vibration free", etc., are relative and are not absolutes. Perception is everything when it comes to performance issues.

Greetings Oh Great and Wise Tohatsu Guru!

What a great and helpful post! You are mostly right in what you say, but also partly wrong, but let me explain.

I have had the motor to two "authorized suzuki dealers" thus far and they have confirmed my allegations. I have submitted my case in writing to suzuki, following exactly the steps set forth on SUZUKI's web site. I have had my case resubmitted by the NC Attorney General's Office for Consumer Protection. (Guess that pissed suzuki off because they basically told me there was nothing wrong with my motor. ) I have been in touch with Brown's Point Marine Services in NJ (helpful folk but they are in NJ and I am in NC. ) I have written additional letters to Suzuki (which have gone unanswered for two months or thereabouts. ) Today I spoke with folks at Fort Macon Marine in Atlantic Beach, NC (seem to be helpful up front and have done what they say they were going to do thus far, but still early in process, so stay tuned. ) I have begged to speak with Suzuki rep everywhere I go but either they don't relay my message or suzuki doesn't want to talk.

Today I found out that there "may" be a problem with my motor as put forth by suzuki at their training seminars, but will have to wait to get feedback on that due to shop closing for two weeks.

While you are right that most of my problem lies with dealers, I can't help but think suzuki is partly to blame because of their responses to me. Hey they made me make mine in writing but would not respond in writing with their position until the NC Attorney General got involved.

Anyway, you are absolutely right about absolutes, and I can only tell you that I am a reasonable guy and that my vibration is not. I'm trying to pursue this via other dealers, and maybe with luck will be able to resolve this successfully at some point. This whole thing could have been resolved on day one is suzuki had just made that little extra effort to send one of their reps to examine the thing, especially after two authorized techs witnessed the problem. Hey I even have it in writing on one invoice!!!

Thanks again for your insight! I REALLY appreciate the input!

........BB

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

I understand your position, but there are some absolutes that are involved.

Engine in your possession = No reason for Suzuki to to anything. You have to have the engine at a dealer awaiting repair. While the engine is away from a dealer Suzuki looks at it as a solved problem.

The second you went legal a wall dropped at Suzuki. All manufacturers retreat into a shell after someone seeks any kind of legal remedy. You may end up actually having to pursue a stright up suit and take it all the way to get them to do anything now.

I hope you get eventual satisfaction from Suzuki, but unti you stick that engine back into a dealers repair shop the clock isn't ticking. Having said that, I'm going to be standing 10" from all the gang at Suzuki in two weeks. If you like I will be happy to mention your problem directly to the the correct people. Shoot me an email with your basic information and a ten line description of the engine vibration and I'll see if they will respond to you.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2005 Suzuki DF9.9 (possibly DF15?) Vibration Problem

I understand your position, but there are some absolutes that are involved.

Engine in your possession = No reason for Suzuki to to anything. You have to have the engine at a dealer awaiting repair. While the engine is away from a dealer Suzuki looks at it as a solved problem.

The second you went legal a wall dropped at Suzuki. All manufacturers retreat into a shell after someone seeks any kind of legal remedy. You may end up actually having to pursue a stright up suit and take it all the way to get them to do anything now.

I hope you get eventual satisfaction from Suzuki, but unti you stick that engine back into a dealers repair shop the clock isn't ticking. Having said that, I'm going to be standing 10" from all the gang at Suzuki in two weeks. If you like I will be happy to mention your problem directly to the the correct people. Shoot me an email with your basic information and a ten line description of the engine vibration and I'll see if they will respond to you.

Thanks T_G!

The "legal" thing only came after suzuki folks "ignored" my written request per their website instructions. Seems "they" didn't think "they" had to play by the same rules they made me play by... to wit: respond to me in writing.

Anyway, I have had a bit of "good" news and hopefully something will come of it. Had gone by Fort Macon Marine in nearby Morehead City, NC. A very nice guy there has called me back to say he had been in touch with his Suzuki Rep and that I should expect a call from that rep in the next few days to discuss my problem. I could not believe that the FMM guy went to all that trouble for me, but I have really high hopes of at least having a REAL Suzuki Rep look at my problem. ( THANKS Fort Macon Marine! ) This is what should have happened EARLY on in the chain of events. Hopefully demonstrating to the Rep will reveal that I am not some kind of nut-case.

Stay tuned and I will post the results.

Regards....BB

PS: I've heard good things about Suzuki Dealers in FL. Maybe I'll be able to say the same thing about NC in the near future.