Then why are You and I, Crunch and 12Footer goin' round n' round, (like I also do with my Cornservatives friends)? Just because I debate my Cornservative friends does not prove anything. That said: you will likely notice what I also notice: that Cornservatives do tend to construct arguments/debates together based on reasonable and plausable intrepretation of actual events, usually not a set of totally inacurate slogans, mind reads, or victimhood feelings, (it's about the children et al).
I dont think we are going rounds that much, except on the actual way the war is being managed and whos responsible for the failures. [colour=red]Then I guess we need to agree to disagree here. I don't agree with either you or 12Footer on this particular thread, and I debate my Cornservative friends all the time in a similar fashon, so maybe I'm in a bubble or the ol' brain cell is not functionin' very well, but that IS THE EXPERIENCE I'VE HAD HERE AND OUT THERE ON MAIN STREET IMHO.[/colour]
I read that youre happy with the way things have gone or make the simple observation that any setbacks is because the enemy is too great.[colour=red] I've never said what you just stated that you "read". Please read my words not my mind. My point, (one of them: Skinny), is that this enemy IS VERY CAPABLE, will do things we will not cornsider, n' they have lots o' friends in the MSM, France n' the domestic Democrat party, but that is ONE ASPECT of a complex conflict. You seem facinated with simple labels or slogans. Those are far to shallow to confine the debate in this matter. Please do not "repackage" my rhetoric into simple slogans or one dimentional corncepts.[/colour] In 12s case the setbacks are solely because of the Dems.
What is said derogatory about the Dems I generally dont disagree with. [colour=red]Double negative here: so I can't tell what you mean. I don't want to argue for 12Footer , because he and I may not agree.[/colour]
I don't know where you see that Skinny, (are you talking about the fact that only 17 Republicans voted with the Dems to waste time helpin' the enemy, instead of the expected 60 the MSM was hoping for)? Maybe the 7 Republican Senators? I don't see the lockstep dittohead stuff you see. But we are debatin' facts n' events here aren't we?
Mostly Im talking about the Republican lockstep dittoheads here on DC. [colour=red]Labels n' slogans DON'T work in a serious debate Skinny[/colour].
The 17 youre talking about changed their tune since the election, but before, it to was pretty much lockstep.
[colour=red]The corncept is called democracy: Skinny. Some pols are only pols n' don't believe in anything 'cept their own re-election. I for one like a real statesman, n' I don't like pols. Ted Kennedy, as much as I don't like him is a REAL STATESMAN. He has a lot o' hair n' says things he actually believes even when he knows it's unpopular.[/colour]
Not all Republicans are Cornservative, but most are. I'm a Cornservative but not a Republican like many I know. I usually vote Republican, as they are closest to my views on most things. You are making my point again Skinny.
Or rather youve made my point. Although Ill make my point more specific, this Republican administration is actually very liberal. [colour=red]No Skinny I did not make your point. I said what I said. This administration GOVERNS, the Clinton administration also GOVERNED. that means that Cornservatives (like you and others, [me too]), will be unhappy about some policies because Bush is Bro Haut's and PW2's and Rolmops' president as much as yours n' mine. Clinton was also "all of our" president n' I for one didn't mind some of his policies[/colour].
Wow Skinny, do you cornsider that an answer? You as a Cornservative, (and many Cornservatives I know), also want much more ferocity in Iraq. This is not WW2 Skinny, (or even Korea or 'Nam). We are the only superpower. The world is very jealous of our sucess and power, and our allies and enemies aren't much different in that sentiment. The situation that we face and the type of enemy we face is VERY DIFFERENT and actually there is no previous large scale conflict ANYTHING like this particular conflict. Nor have we faced a world wide Stateless enemy with individual State backing. Do you think the world would luv us if we just killed every living thing in Iraq? I don't, but: at least we have defined the dissagreement between us.
Yes, this seems to be the biggest difference we have. And again my answer is spot on point.
Respectfully OMR, you make entirely to many excuses.
The jealousy of the world shouldnt matter one itty bitty bit when our boys are being blown to pieces! [colour=red]The world does matter Skinny. we have a little over 300 million on a planet with over 6 Billion. we need to tread softly with our big stick, IMHO. [/colour]
Its odd to make excuses for our failures on this enemy, especially when we are a superpower. [colour=red]IMHO, you and many on the right and left do not understand the real world limitations of America's power.[/colour]
It seems to me on the subject of war your sounding entirely too pacifist. [colour=red]I am a pacifist, (maybe not as you are attempting to label here, [can't read your mind]), Skinny, I HATE WAR[/colour].
You said yourself we have tremendous history of warfare to learn from.
Germany and Japan (two major fronts)had overwhelming weapons and advantages militarily and we whupped them in less time than we have in Iraq. We have the knowledge on what not to do when we fight enemies like this, Korea and Vietnam. [colour=red]This war is VERY DIFFERENT THEN ANY WE HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED: Skinny.[/colour]
You bring up the point of a PC war, we see it doesnt work yet you seem to think its something well have to live with.
It seems youve been pacified to accept a PC war, to patiently accept what doesnt work, to give kudos to the enemy instead of kill them. [colour=red]Skinny, if you have read my posts you would see that I want us to win this PC war so we don't have to revert to WW2 tactics, (which the Democrat strategies will drive us too IMHO). If we have to take out a large portion of 1 Billion people it will not be pretty.[/colour]
Skinny: That is because we are in a sovereign country! We were incredibly sucessful in having elections and setting up a republic in Iraq, (undoubtably a world record transformation from brutal dictatorship to democratic republic). As many on this forum have stated: Democracies sometimes elect people who we would not have picked! Was that a mistake? Don't know. Time will tell, and we do know what OBL and the domestic Democrats are working for: Skinny!
A tremendous amount has happened since those elections that if put on a balance beam would tilt far away from words you use like successful and world record transformation. [colour=red]Me thinks you are far to impatient Skinny. Please cornsider history.[/colour]
I understand the disdain for the Dems and the heartfelt anticipation we had for victory and justice in our causes. Perhaps a 12-step program might be in order.
Here is MY POINT Skinny: I think Bush Rumsfield have been relatively COMPETENT in conducting this war not: incompetant!
And ignore that we had a President proudly proclaim, mission accomplished at exactly the time when the mission only started! [colour=red]Skinny, you really have this thing with labels n' slogans. ABC,CBS,NBC,BBC,CNN,NYT,WP, n' all the rest repeated that n' spun it ta suit their cornsumers. Think for just a second: The Abe Lincons' mission was accomplished in a surprizingly rapid fashon, Willy's favorite editors n' the Dems were very sucessfull in degrading America with repeating and revising the meaning of that ill cornceived stunt.[/colour]How many times does the example of Al Sadir being surrounded by the Marines twice, and then called to retreat have to be made? [colour=red]I repeat: SKINNY WE ARE IN A SOVERIEGN COUNTRY.[/colour]
There are several years worth of GAO reports online, type in Iraq. They systematically report in detail the steady monthly increases in violence, lost opportunities, wasted money, machines and lives, lost causes, setbacks, confusion and blunders. [colour=red]VERY CAPABLE ENEMY: Skinny. They know how ta beat us. Blow up a car n' kill some Muslins. ABC,NBC,CBS,BBC,CNN,NYT,WP will repeat this VICTORY, n' characterize America n' Bush as the one who caused it. I GET IT: Skinny, just don't buy it, (I know who is on our side n' who is not).[/colour]
Cut and Run is every bit a slogan just like Stay the course. [colour=red]True.[/colour]
It seems the Dems and locksteppers have much in common when it comes to embracing failed policy.
They want to run when the going gets tough. You back a President that incompetently proposes too little, too late.
. 
