Advice about winterization gone wrong

Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
8
I'm hoping I can get some thoughts from others about this scenario -

I called a local shop and asked for a quote on having my boat winterized. The woman (non-mechanic) takes my message and then later calls me back with a quote after she talked to the mechanic. Long story short, although I asked to have my boat winterized, they did a "winter tune up". The block cracked this past winter and now they are telling me that it's not their fault. According to them, it's my fault since I should have known to specify what I meant by winterization (they say "winterization" means lots of things) and I should have known enough about the winterization process to have known that the boat hadn't been winterized. I saw the invoice and it was the amount they quoted, but since I didn't really know what the true winterization process involved, nothing jumped out to me from the invoice that would have made me question whether they had "winterized" the boat (the invoice said 6 or 7 hours service and didn't include much detail).

This was my first time winterizing a boat and, at the time, all I really knew is that it needed to be done and that I didn't want to do it. So, I paid a professional to do it. Maybe I should have done my homework to realize what is involved (then I maybe would have known that they hadn't winterized it), but the whole reason I paid someone else was so that I wouldn't have to think about it. I think what happened here is that I asked for winterization and the person who set up the appointment (who doesn't seem all that knowledgable about boats) assumed I wanted a tune-up.

So I'm wondering whether it is reasonable to assume that if you drop off a ski boat in November and ask to have it winterized that the shop would understand what service you want done? If not, then how did the shop decide that a tune up was the right service (as opposed to hundreds of other things they should have done)? If "winterization" is an understood term, then am I at fault for not making sure they did the right work (or the work I had asked them to do).

For what it's worth, I never used terms other than "winterize" since that is the term everyone told me ("winterize" or "winterization"). I also told them on several occasions that I was pulling the boat out of the water until spring and asked whether I needed to "de-winterize" it in the spring.

I'd appreciate other people's thoughts since I am of course biased. Thanks!
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

you didn't list where you live, but if up north i think they should have called you about winterizing it at the same time. I really think this is Dealer incompentence. suggest you talk with a lawyer.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
8
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Thanks, tashasdaddy. I'm in Seattle where it gets below freezing enough times to worry about freezing and using a ski boat during winter is pretty uncommon here so most people pull it out for the winter.
 

hullofalottatrouble

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
306
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

i dont get why they would think asking for them to "winterize" the boat means you want a tune-up.. a tune-up is a tune-up.. ive never heard anybody call a tune-up.. "winterizing" their boat.. id talk to a lawyer
 

Limited-Time

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
5,820
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Sounds to me like the marina is trying to Cover TheirAzzsez and pass the buck. I have never seen the term"winter tune up":confused: used here. Do you have the original receipt or work order from when the work was preformed? If so how does it read?
 

johnson1989

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
110
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Sounds like a shady deal. You are in the right for sure. Talk to upper management and complain. Bring some knowledge to the table with you. This is clearly their fault. They are the ones that need to ask questions.
 

delsol

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
749
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

i have had a bad time with dealer putting my motor in. next time get it all in writing. where you live it should have been done right. maybe get a lawyer. getting the boat ready to store in winter . means just that.after all the stuff i have been thur and wont get my boat back till next week. i will follow the list on here and do it myself
bob/p
 

stevieray

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,135
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

A reputable marine shop SHOULD have created a detailed written estimate & had you authorize/sign it prior to doing any work. That's the way they do it around my area - saves tons of grief just like this. Next time - insist on it.
 

bouttime007

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
546
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Sounds like the lady at the counter had miscommunication with mechanic. She should have a slight amount of knowledge on boats to do her job correctly/efficiently.
 

bsh21wash

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
263
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

I'm in the Seattle area...just curious where you took it? I'll be sure I wont step in there =)
 

TilliamWe

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Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Unless you only asked for a "tune up", the shop should have known to do a complete winterization. And if you did ask for a "winter tune up" they should have asked you a bunch of questions about what you really meant. Because the term "winter tune up" doesn't exist. At least not in any recreational boating I know of. (and in Florida, if you have a tune up done in January, cause you're still using your boat, it's just called a "tune up"!) I see that you say you asked about "de winterizing". Well right there that should have sent up a flag to them, and they should have said "you don't need to de-winterize" if all you are getting is a tune up".
So unless you are leaving out parts of the conversation that you had with the shop, it appears that they are trying to weasel out of a mistake that they made.
I especially like how they say you should have known what a winterization was and that they didn't do one. You didn't know what it was, that's why you paid them, because they should know what it is!
Winterization can be a larger more complex procedure on a boat with a head and freshwater system. But at it's basic, on every inboard powered boat, it means, drain the raw water from the engine and exhaust to keep it from freezing. That's an absolute minumum!
The invoice still may be of help to you. You say it doesn't have any detail, but does it list parts that they replaced? If you asked for a tune up , and they performed one, there should be charges for parts like a distributor cap, spark plugs, spark plug wires. So if those things aren't listed, then what did they do?
Before you call a lawyer and lose more money, find out who the shop's liability insurance carrier is, and file a claim. You could try to file one with your own carrier, but your policy almost certainly excludes damage from freezing. But you may call your carrier anyway, and let them investigate and gather documents. Then when they deny your claim, they may have provided and proven that the shop is liable.
Good luck
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

It appears everyone is beating up on the shop when the problem may lie in the front office. The phone call was taken by someone obviously non-technical and not a service writer. She hung up the phone, handed someone a note or said this guy wants a "xxxxxxxxx" where xxxxxxx may have been stated "winter tune up", "tune up", or any number of other things. If she was asked questions by the shop folks, who knows how she answered. For all everyone knows, the shop did what they were told to do. Yes -- the problem is still in their court, but I'll bet the blame lies with the person taking the call, not the shop. Regardless -- I think you have a case that will stand up in court. I believe in most states, small claims courts handle cases up to either $2500 or $5000 and court fees are very small so it won't cost you much to find out. Once they know they are being served, they may settle out of court.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,587
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

I agree with Silvertip that this is a small claims court type case. Everything is going to depend on what you have in writing on your service slip. If is doesn't say winterization, you are going to be out of luck.
 

salty87

Commander
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Aug 12, 2003
Messages
2,327
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

i'd be careful with calling your insurance company. i called mine once when i broke a driveshaft, mechanical failure not from hitting something. they said i wasn't covered and then said i made a claim on my policy and raised my rates. it was crap and i fought it, they took the claim off. but still, if you're not covered i wouldn't bother telling them.

i agree that you seem to have a good claim here. i bet they are doing 99% winterizations at that time of the year and a tune-up request would be odd. every shop i've been to would have asked if you wanted it winterized just so they could bill for something else, simple business procedure.

the lack of documentation might work in your favor if they claim you wanted a tune-up but they can't even show they did that.

ask them what their 'winter tune-up' consists of.

send management a demand letter to start your small claims case. keep records of everything.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
8
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I agree that the initial problem happened in the front office, but then I think they should have realized the miscommunication with the questions I asked (that's partly why I'm so confused now). In either event, I was more willing to be reasonable before I spoke to them and was told "winterization means lots of things" and "I should have known." I'm going to try one last time to be reasonable, but if they keep stonewalling then I'll just have another shop clean up the mess and sue this shop for the work. I've checked with the insurance and, even though they also think it's the shop's fault, there's nothing they can do.

To answer the question of the invoice, it doesn't say much. It says 6 hours to "remove and replace outdrive zincs, service drive, clean bottom, oil and filter change". Replacing the zincs was extra and not part of the oringinal estimate and so was the bottom clean (I asked for it because I was taking the boat out of the water - another red flag). To be honest, I didn't read the invoice when I picked it up since the amount was what I expected to pay. So if you take those extra items out of the description, it basically reads "service drive, oil and filter change". That is supposedly what the $450 covered which, had they described that to me beforehand, I would have realized that I wasn't getting a winterization. The parts listed on the invoice consist of an oil waste fee, anode kit, oil filter, fuel filter, sta-bil, oil, oil pads and 3 cotton rags. That's all. In the future, I will always get a written estimate that details the work to be done and includes a certification that the boat was properly winterized. If I'd just done everything by email, there wouldn't even be a question now.

Thanks again everyone for your comments. They were all really helpful.
 

FreeBeeTony

Captain
Joined
May 15, 2002
Messages
3,991
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Seems to me like the only things they didn't do were to fog the engine and drain the block/manifold &/or add anti-freeze...........they even added stabil........why would you add stabil during a tune-up?
 

hullofalottatrouble

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
306
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

had the same thought as tony.. seems like more of a winterization than a tune-up.. the sta-bil is a nice addition.. why add the sta-bil for a tune-up? Why service the drive for a tune-up? and why no plugs or plug wires if it was a tune-up? and $450?
 

njlarry

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
330
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

They, not you should have known what is required before winter. Who has their engine tuned in the fall instead of the spring? What shop would turn an engine over to a customer after the season without questioning why you still have not drained the cooling system? Why would they not offer you a winter winterization as opposed to a non-winter winterization. What was the mechanic thinking of not matter what "the girl" said? They screwed up big time.
Good honest mechanics are to be valued. I left a marina becuase they charged me to remove my outdrive and engine to replace a bolt they said I couldn't be shown. After I got the unit back, there NO marks on any of the bolts, hose clamps etc. So I know how you must feel.
File a small claims court motion and hire another shop to fix things.
 

BlowHo

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
104
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

Don't mean to jack this thread, but does anyone have a recommendation for a really good shop in the Tacoma, Washington area?

Thanks
 

DHPMARINE

Captain
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
3,688
Re: Advice about winterization gone wrong

This won't help,but we do this : you call,we give you an appointment for roughly what you said you need.You come in,we then write the work order for what you request.

Then the mechanic does what we wrote on the work order,you get the bill and everything is explained.And written on your receipt.

DHP
 
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