1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

[highangle]

I just "inherited" a 1961 16' Seaswirl with a 1964 60 hp Mont. Ward/Gale/Johnson engine. Never had a boat before. Been lurking for two weeks, and got a ton of info from all the other posts.

Every now and then the prior owner had sprayed WD-40 into whatever looked like it needed oil. Brought it home, worked the pull start to make sure it wasn't frozen, then took it down to the river - and - the darned thing started and ran pretty darned good. 20-25 mph, quite a bit of smoke.

Only problem is that when punching the throttle, it doesn't want to get up and go. Leave it WOT for 30-60 seconds, and it will start running like a top.

Two weeks later, I have resealed the lower unit, new impeller, rebuilt the carb, points, condenser, new plugs, plug wires, fuel pump, pint of Seafoam in 6 gallons of gas.

Then thought I should probably check compression. Warmed up engine, pulled and tested one plug at a time, got 65 psi +/- the width of the needle on all four cylinders. Did not have throttle wide open, but not sure if that would push it up to 100psi+.

Questions: Is that a reasonable compression reading? Can a ring job be done by a novice mechanic? Is the engine worth doing that much work on?

Also need to clarify mix ratio - originally said 24:1, but many posts say it is ok to use 50:1, I split the differance and am running about 32:1. What is best for these motors?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Remove all of the spark plugs at one time when checking compression. If cranking via the manual starter, compression would vary with the speed that one pulls with. If checking with a electric starter, try another gauge.

That engine due to its design can safely use the 50/1 mixture.

Notice the front of the carburetor at the lower portion. Those two 7/16" slotted bolts...... in back of those bolts are two high speed jets. If you can't remove and clean them manually with a piece of single strand steel wire (mechanics wire), clean there where they are then with the primer bulb, run a small amount of gas thru the carburetor to flush it out.

 

[JB]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Howdy, Highangle.

Welcome to iboats.

I would call your compression measurements very good, since you had the other plugs in when you took them. If you doubt me, take all the plugs out and try again with a freshly charged battery. I would expect about 90psi, which is fine for that engine. The fact that they all measure the same is the important bit.

Your correct mix is officially 50:1.

Your plugs should be Champion J4C, gapped at .030"

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Thanks for the quick replies! Probably will run the compression check the right way just for another benchmark. When I saw the 65 on the 1st cylinder I almost wept, but then was encouraged and couldn't believe it when they all came in at almost the exact same reading. Used the electric starter.

I did completely tear down the carb, made the suggested tool to get the high speed jets out and got them really clean. Unfortunately on my test run I managed to snap the shift handle on the controls!!!! Now that it is fixed, going back out tonight to try to tune the carb and see if it fixes the "punch" issue. Any other suggestions?

Pulled the thermostat and tested that it still works, and when running can touch the heads for "one-thousand-one" after it has really been going. Getting water spitting out w/the exhaust. Is this a sign that it is cooling properly?

Cannot find that it has a thermo-sensor on the engine. The overheat light is in the dash, but cannot find a similar wire on the engine. Can you get replacements for those? Better way to make sure I don't overheat?

We are really excited to get this thing running - I have pictures of me at 4 yrs old fishing out of it w/my grandfather, so really want to keep it going with my kids.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Hesitation, assuming the fixed high speed jets are clear, would be caused by the throttle butterflies opening too soon in relation to the timing (the scribe mark on the throttle cam/roller thing). I don't remember that correct procedure for that...... perhaps your local library has a service manual to advise you ofthat procedure.

 

[Windykid]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Since that engine is old, I would continue the decarb with seafoam. Hopefully it loosens the rings. Then another compression test.

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Ok, Saturday - ran for 2-4 hours, soaked pistons in deepcreep night before, ran another can of Seafoam in 6 gallons of gas. Got idle/high jets working pretty well, but still not hot out of the hole.

Halfway through the day, it started bogging down at WOT and then stalling. Pump bulb, it picks back up for a bit, then stalls out. Ran w/o cowling - WOT draws the gas down all the way in the clear filter bowl on the fuel pump.

Sunday- tried running again, removing "bits" from the fuel system to try to pinpoint problem. Inline fuel filter removed/replaced, fuel tank switched (2 new - plastic tanks). Pulled vaccum hose from pump - good "suck". After a bit, even with the primer bulb HARD, it would not keep going at WOT. Pulled the "out" line off - at idle it just dripped gas out of the line. Is the fuel pump bad? (just rebuilt it!)

The carb rebuild kit came with a clip for the needle valve to clip onto the float. Original float did not have one, nor does the Seloc book diagram or the diagram that came with the rebuild kit - should I pull the carb and put it on? Also, the float looked good (cork) so I did not replace - but a bad float should cause too much gas, should it?

Did do a new "link-n-sync" using the Seloc manual on Sunday, readjusted idle jets. GREATLY improved the hole shot, but after 10-15 seconds it runs out of gas!

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Also, on all prior uses it had been draining very black "exhaust water" but now there is no sign of black at all - does that mean it is decarbed?

 

[F_R]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Just to reply to a couple of your comments: The glass bowl will not normally stay full. Never has and never will. Don't ask me how it can work that way, that's just the way they are.

You say it only dribbles gas from the fuel out nipple. Don't know what constitutes a "dribble" but they should be a pretty efficient pump and do more than a dribble.

Trying to remember the hose routings on that motor, but it's been a long time. But the pump's pulse hose is supposed to receive an alternating pressure/vacuum pulse. You say it has a good "suck". Are you sure it's connected to the right fitting?

However, on the other hand, you say that pumping the pulb up hard while running doesn't do any good. That would override the fuel pump and if the pump is at fault that would make it keep going. Hm-m-m-m-m. Have you considered the possibility that the problem is not fuel related? Just some thoughts. Sorry I don't have better advice. EDIT: Yes you need to have the clip on the inlet needle. The original didn't need one because it was metal tipped. The new one is soft tipped and will stick up in the seat without the clip to drag it down.

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

As for those clips. . . .

They're supposed to keep the float valves from sticking shut, which sounds like a real possibility here. The originals didn't have them, but all the rebuild kits do now. Install the clips.

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Thanks for the tips. I'll pull the carb and install the clip.... guess spare parts ARE bad....

imported F R- the vaccum line does go to a port on the back of the #4 cylinder, and it does push/pull.

We putted around at a hair over idle for about 30 mins w/o any problems. As soon as I punched it though, about the time the boat got up to plane it would start sputtering out. Backed off the throttle, and it kept going. Idle for a few minutes and I could repeat.

Does the float valve completely shut off the flow of fuel, or could enough be coming by to keep it idling?

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

It can stick anyplace from completely shut to barely open to just about all the way dropped. When you're WOT you need it to drop to fully open. Might as well double-check the float setting while you've got it apart.

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Phew! Pulled carb apart again and got the clip on the needle valve. It really made a difference! Still a little hesitation when punching it, but I'll play with the sync a bit more. Found that one of the fuel connectors had a trashed O ring as well pulling air into the fuel system.

Topped out at 25mph, no stalling. Thanks for your help, and the help of all the other threads here. Now for all the glass work this boat needs......

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Finally got a tachometer, spark tester, decarbed and got the following:

Compression 65-70 lbs in all 4 cylinders, with all plugs removed and WOT.

Starts well, but it dies before I can get it to idle below 1000rpm. It just gives a big cough and dies. Where should the idle be on this? Need to find out where it tops out on the water. Still trying to figure out why it has a 10 x 8 prop.....

Spark test: using a single tester, all other plugs grounded out, 3/16 to 1/4 inch spark, yellow. Battery was running low, not sure if a slow crank would affect that or not? Coil didn't have any cracks, leaks or anything. Of course the wiring looked to be cloth-covered, not plastic. Did not replace the coil.

Spark plug wires are new, but I used automotive wires, not copper. I plan on replacing them soon, but would that affect the spark? (more resistance?)

I pulled apart the magneto unit and cleaned rust off of the magnets. Couldn't see any carbon traces from arcing. The actual "spinning" portion of the magneto was green all over - looked like it had been dipped in something, not corrosion. Is this the case?

Taking it out on the lake tomorrow, but not sure where to go from here?

A big thanks to everyone on this board. In a small Idaho town, one shop told me that if it wasn't a Mercury, they didn't look at it and the other told me to bring it in over the winter and he might look at it.... I would have never gotten this far without all the advice here and through other posts!

 

[byacey]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Running automotive plug wires is harder on the coils becuase they have to produce a higher voltage before the plug will fire. Best to change to steel core wire asap. Your compression sounds like it's on the low side. Keep up with the seafoam treatments and maybe it'll loosen up; if not then it's probably time for honing the cylinders and new rings. The lower compression will affect low speed idling, as well as possible vacuum leaks / crankshaft seals.

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Will get new wires today. Found a thread on soldering the wires into the screw type ends, sounds like a good idea.

No kids this weekend, so the wife and I will spend some "quality" time out on the water Will keep posting back!

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Built new spark plug wires using NAPA's "performance" wires. Tested the spark and got a clean, blue spark across nearly 1/2"

Taking it out on the water tonight to see if that improves things....

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

This is a laundry list of issues that I am having - please be patient with me!

Took it out with new "Tinytach" hooked up, new wires, soaked cylinders with Deep Creep for 2 days. Speaking with my grandfather (previous owner) said that the guy he bought it from (1960's) bragged that he had it tuned to where it would troll really slow with the 60 horse engine! Might explain all the carbon and 8 pitch prop.

First, I think they sent the wrong tach. Adjusting the idle, could get it down to where the tach said about 1200, but anything below that it would die. Then took it out to see what WOT did - sounded really smooth, but tach read 8500!!! Engine plate says 4000 to 5000 rpm operating range - Finally decided that tach was showing double the real rpm, adjusted carbs to get to 9300 at top end (4650). Does a plug fire for every one or two rpms?

It still doesn't really punch it well. It takes maybe 10 seconds to get up on plane. Starting to think I am just expecting too much. All the prop info I can find shows 10-12 pitch props. Think I'm going to toss the 8 pitch (it is chipped anyway) and go to the 10 1/2 x 10 pitch. What should I expect? It almost seems like this motor takes a bit to get the 8 pitch spinning - too much resistance? I know that going to a 10 pitch should cut my WOT back 400 rpm.

If running at 4250 rpm, should I be concerned? Where should I be looking to increase that? Have rebuilt the carb, link-n-sync, plugs, plug wires, decarb....

When replacing the plug wires, I checked some of the bolts on the head/jacket/etc and found that the bolts under the flywheel holding down the cover plate were loose - not "if I crank on them they will move" but easy to turn with a 4" wrench. Should I retorque everything?

The carb is rebuilt and adjusted, but the gaskets (body to manifold) seem to be wet/weeping. When wiping a finger under the orifice plugs, I get gas. The orifice plugs do not screw in evenly, and are just plugs (no head). Should these have a head and a gasket of some sort on them? Could any of this be causing problems?

 

[highangle]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

Help!!!! I really need to know if this is remotely worth sinking more time and cash into!!! Was waiting to get the engine figured out before pouring more money into my hole in the water!!!!

Figured out the tach.... Funny how stuff strikes you - pulled off the cowling and I'll be darned if the flywheel isn't bigger than the magnetto pulley.... Maybe even a 1:2 rotation? Shoulda scratched the old noggin' a bit more before ordering.....

new seats are coming, as the orginals kinda self destructed. Every time I cleaned out the boat, it seemed like there was new powdery wood coming from somewhere....

Transom seems pretty good, many of the screws are pretty rusty, but thumped everywhere and it seems solid.

However - it needs a new floor......

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1964 Gale 60 by Johnson - quiet since 1984 -compression/punch

The regular propeller for that engine has a hub that is the same size as the diameter of the gearcase.

However, there is what is called a power propeller for those older V4s whereas the hub diameter is much smaller (about half the diameter of the gearcase) with the propeller diameter and pitch being (if memory serves me correctly) of 10 x 9-1/4. This propeller will have the effect of adding many horses to that engine.