battery question

[Fonchy]

I bought a boat, it has two batteries, they are connected to a battery switch, (PERKO 8501DP), I was just playing with the boat so I can get used to where eveything is an works. If I put the switch in 1 or both batteries everything works if I switch to battey 2 nothing works, so I traced the cables and battery 2 the ground wire was not connected, well I went to connect the wire to the switch (by this time switch is off) and I got sparks and it got reallyyyyyyyyy hot, so I know there is something going on but I cant figured it out. I think when I connected the battery on switch 2 it fried that side because I connected battery one and everything works fine. the positive and negative wires from battery 2 got real hot so my question is do I just replace the wires just in case they are making contact somewhere that I dont know about, replace the battery, I know Im going to have to get another switch or replace everything and start fresh.

Boat is a 2003 Kencraft Challenger 206 center console (now they are called Sea Kings) yamaha 200 HDPI.

Thanks in advance

Armando

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

I think you should go back and look at the wiring from battery #1 again.. I think you'll find that the positive wire is attached to the perko switch and the negative is connected to the engine. Your battery #2 positive wire is also connected to the perko switch and it's ground should be connected to battery #1's ground.

If you connect both the positive and the negative to the switch You are probably shorting the battery out causing the positive & negative wires to be hooked together when you switch to battery #2...

That would explain why the wires are getting hot!

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

The scwitch has 3 prongs 2 for reds and 1 for grounds. bat1 red is connected to #1 prong, bat2 red is connected to #2 prong and middle is ground

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

Most Switches do not require a ground unless they are illuminated, they are normally installed in line between the source and the load to break the connection between the two.

If your switch is a Perko 8501DP the three prongs are Battery #1, Battery #2 and Common. Common meaning the common connection between #1 and #2 NOT a ground. This Common should be going to the electrical system/starter etc. A set of detailed instructions can be downloaded for this switch at:
http://gator49.hostgator.com/~zeromyst/catalog/images/8501.pdf

Diagram #1 corresponds to your situation. (One Engine Two Batt)
If you will notice the grounds to the batteries are connected together and not tied to the switch.

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

When I bought the boat, that is how it was wired, in the common prong there are 3 wires. 1 is going to the battery negative (thick wire), 2nd wire controls the accessories and 3rd wire I dont know where it goes, where should I connect the neg wires, I do not see a place in the boat to connect them to. What you said was helpful. but Im not boat electrical savy.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

if you connect your ground on battery #2 to the ground terminal on battery #1 it should charge and work properly. (Note if it's never been used the Battery #2 might be weak or close to dead)

You'll need to use a pretty heavy gauge wire from negative to negative not a light gauge wire. Get a good molded terminal for battery #2 with a ring terminal on one end. Connect the ring terminal to battery #1 and the moulded terminal to battery #2's negative.

If you can find where battery #1 connects to the engine that is another option but it being an outboard it will probably be much easier to connect the negatives together at battery #1.

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

That is what I dony understand, the batteries have the little light on them to tell you the state of the battery and it is green and believe me is charged, when I connected that second battery to where the first one is connected there were some sparks flying, how is charging???? no idea.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

The switch by design is supposed to either connect the positive lead from battery #1 or battery #2 to the third terminal when switched. You said that your ships accessories and such were connected to this third terminal, as well as an unknown wire. One of these three goes to the starter on your engine, and the other is probably more electrical for the engine. The way this switch is designed if you connect a ground to the third terminal and switch it from off it will throw 12 volts to ground causing a short. If it were wired this way your boat would not crank nor would your electrical system function, it would kill your battery and possibly cause some major damage to it.

Im betting that the negative on your battery #1 goes to a terminal for distribution as well as a direct connection to the engine via a large plug.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

That is what I dony understand, the batteries have the little light on them to tell you the state of the battery and it is green and believe me is charged, when I connected that second battery to where the first one is connected there were some sparks flying, how is charging???? no idea.

The only connection battery #2 should have to the switch is the positive side of the battery to the second terminal on the perko switch.. The negative should be connected to battery #1's negative post.

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

I have taken this boat to the lake once already and cranks everytime. I will try to take pic tomorrow to show you guys how the setup is

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

I have taken this boat to the lake once already and cranks everytime. I will try to take pic tomorrow to show you guys how the setup is

Right, this tells me that there is no way the negative from battery #1 is connected to the perko switch common! hence the comment about it not working.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

I think when I connected the battery on switch 2 it fried that side because I connected battery one and everything works fine.

One more thing, if you're going to be doing much marine electrical troubleshooting a digital multimeter would be a great investment. Most of these have a continuity function that will let you check the state of switches, trace a wire, find a ground etc.

You could use it for example to check the other side of your perko switch. Set the meter to continuity, and the switch to position #1.. It should show continuity from terminal 1 and the common, while not from terminal #2. When the switch is set to #2 it should show just the opposite (Continuity from terminal 2 and the common) While the switch is in the BOTH position it should show Continuity on BOTH terminals to the common.

 

[drewpster]

Re: battery question

The only wires that should be connected to your battery switch should be POSITIVE wires. The number 1 switch lug should be connected to the positive post of battery 1. The number 2 switch lug should be connected to the positive post of battery 2. The Common lug should only have positive supply wires connected to it. If ANY negative wire is connected to the switch a short circuit will occur that can start a fire.

It sounds as if someone has incorrectly connected the ground of battery 2 to the common post of the battery switch.

NOTE: Make sure there are NO negative wires connected to any lug on the back of the battery switch!

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

Here is a pic of how is wired without neg of bat.2. on the left is pos of bat1 center is neg of bat1 and 2 more wires (accessories and I think starter) right is pos of bat2.

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: battery question

The only wires that should be connected to your battery switch should be POSITIVE wires. The number 1 switch lug should be connected to the positive post of battery 1. The number 2 switch lug should be connected to the positive post of battery 2. The Common lug should only have positive supply wires connected to it. If ANY negative wire is connected to the switch a short circuit will occur that can start a fire.

It sounds as if someone has incorrectly connected the ground of battery 2 to the common post of the battery switch.

NOTE: Make sure there are NO negative wires connected to any lug on the back of the battery switch!

DEFINATELY!! NO negative wires to the switch. After you get it right check your charging circuit. With all the sparks and shorts you have had you most likely blew it.

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

Where should I connect that neg wire??? Do I just take it out of there and connect it somewhere on the engine itself, WHere do I connect the other 2 wires, do I just connect them where Im putting the neg wire 2, does anyone have a pic of where there neg wire is connected 2.

 

[Fonchy]

Re: battery question

After you get it right check your charging circuit.

Where is the charging circuit?????

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: battery question

Where is the charging circuit?????

Its part of the motor. The easiest way to check it is to check the battery voltage with the motor off and then check it again with it running. You should see an increase in voltage starting around 1500 RPM. If you don't see an increase then its shot. You will have to replace the rectifier/regulator.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

Where should I connect that neg wire??? Do I just take it out of there and connect it somewhere on the engine itself, WHere do I connect the other 2 wires, do I just connect them where Im putting the neg wire 2, does anyone have a pic of where there neg wire is connected 2.

Don't go switching wires on that switch just yet, if its running fine right now then the switch is set up right. Like I said before *IF* a ground was connected from battery #1 then your boat would not crank. You said it cranks fine so I deduce that everything is hooked up and working up to that point.

You start having a problem when you took the ground from battery #2 and connected it to the switch. This is the wrong place to connect it regardless how it looks on the perko switch.

From the picture you posted there is in fact a black insulated wire connected to the switch, it also has a RED shield on the end of it, RED shields normally indicate a wire that is intended to carry positive current, it is impossible that battery #1's positive & negative wires are both connected to that switch if you have normal operation in position #1.

Don't go trying to troubleshoot your charging system just yet.. yes you might have blown your rectifier but take one problem at a time. If you start disconnecting everything and trying to re-wire things at the same time you're trying to check the charging system you're going to end up with a big confusing mess.

Before you start re-wiring things Do this:
Get a set of jumper cables, connect battery #2's ground to battery #1's ground set the switch to position #2 and see if everything is working. I bet it works fine.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: battery question

Here is a pic of how is wired without neg of bat.2. on the left is pos of bat1 center is neg of bat1 and 2 more wires (accessories and I think starter) right is pos of bat2.

That heavy gauge wire is to your engine/starter electrical. The small 10 AWG wires go to your ships electrical accessories (fish finder, radio, lights etc) Starters are NEVER wired with such light gauge wires because of the tremendous load they pull. If you pull the cover off of your outboard and look directly at the starter you will see a large heavy gauge wire connected directly to it. This will be 4 AWG or larger, MUCH larger than the two small wires that are connected to the switch.