how can I get around privacy law?

[bandit86]

my son is being neglected and emotionally abused, some evidence of physical abuse too, but the childrens aid society is sitting on their asses, refusing to answer my questions. I'm trying to get an attendance list from school because the teacher let it slip thaty he is missing "at least" half of school, complains of being hungry all the time.
Already had the principal of his previous school call me as the emergency number, I talked to my ex and I thought I everything was back to normal but no it's not, it's worse then ever. Childrens aid informed me they're investigating. I called them dozens of time. They let it slip they were investigating before I even called them. Their answer to him not being fed was that since he's with me every weekend, he's not likely to starve to death during the week. (seriously not making this up)
I'm also trying to get a report or a list of what they came across during their investigations but everyone I talk to refuses to share information because of our privacy law (Canada)
If anyone knows where I can turn, it would be greatly appreciated, I cant think clearly any more.
my son called me a while ago crying, his mother again threatened him he'll never see me again after I dropped him off.
he went in the house to check for food, said there is not a lot (considering there is 8 in her household) and took my camea phone and made some pictures when, would this be usable in a court?
I'm going through court but everything is happening so bloody slow, my next court date is feb14 but even that is a pre trial conference resolution whatever they call it. I need the school records and childrens aid reports to file for emergency custody
just got a new lawyer too before Christmas, the last one did nothing for months

 

[Don S]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

If you think abuse is happening, call 911

Talk to an attorney. The local police, even the local news.
But there isn't any help on a boating forum. Lots of back slapping and saying it will be ok, and this happened to me, and the ever popular "Here is what I WOULD do" from all the armchair lawers, and there are lots of them. But in the end, it all comes down to what you can get those in your local area to do to cure the problem.
The squeekie wheel gets the grease.

 

[bandit86]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

I'm squeaky enough, talked to local representation of our parliament, gonna call her office again tomorrow with / for an update.

I got people working on it, but I want to make sure I got all the bases covered.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

If you think there are illegal activities going on call the cops. Tell them your worried about the welfare of your child and think there may be abuse going on right then at that time. They have to go there and make sure the child is OK. Enough calls and maybe they will catch them in the act. Not only that but maybe a few visits might get her to change some behaviour......Don is right though get a Lawyer.........If she is neglecting your child chances are she will ahve to use the court appointed one she gets if she has custody........Do it and do it now, the longer you wait the more that can go on.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

I can't speak to child protection laws in Canada because I simply don't know them. I do know something about them in the state of Louisiana, in the U.S.

First of all, you are the father so, if you were here, you would have some rights. Secondly, our laws protect those who report child abuse, even if it turns out not to be true, as long as the person doing so is not falsely reporting the abuse and/or attempting to use a claim of abuse as some sort of retribution. My guess is that the laws in Canada are similar. As such, I would report suspected abuse.

Really, though, your best bet is to rely on the attorney you have hired. Compared to many who have to deal with such issues, you are in an enviable position because you can afford to hire one. Don't get me wrong, I know that it is rarely an "open checkbook" in regard to paying any attorney, but so many people can't afford to spend a dime, and they often get "run over" by the public officals involved.

I am currently helping a friend with some issues concerning her kids so I understand your frustrations. I don't want to get into specifics on the internet but I'll give you one piece of advice - get copies of the child protection laws for Canada as a whole and, if the are such laws on a provincial level, read up on those too. Half the battle is knowing what the social services people can do and what they can't. Also, don't assume that they will behave reasonably and truly in the best interest of the kids. They will tell you that they are doing that, and may even believe that they are, but they often make mistakes and many of them will jerk you around to cover that up. That said, if you get to know all the players involved, you will usually find someone at social services who is both straight with you and very good at what they do. Go find such a person and make a friend - you will find out stuff and get stuff done that would be impossible otherwise.

Good luck with it all.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

....

 

[Bondo]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

Childrens aid informed me they're investigating.

Ayuh,....... I just went through this, only from the outside looking in...... Sorta...

Outside enough that I had No legal standings, except to have to clear myself, repeatedly to the DSS,.....

1st time was actually quite Funny, as the Charges were Hilariously Stupid....

After the 4th time,...... I told them that I was sick of being told that I'm a "Disinterested 3rd party" with No recourse,+ If they called Me again,......
They could answer My questions,+ hear My replies in Court,..... Because after I Sue them for Harassment,....
I will No longer be a "Disinterested 3rd party"........

Haven't heard a thing in a couple of years now......

Anyways,...... Back to Your case......

Be Patient..............

DSS or whomever is the government body in charge in your case, Isn't going to Tell you Anything,.....Not til it goes to trial, if it ever does.....

You're trying to involve yourself, But you're Too Emotionally involved,....
Stay Out of the dept.'s way,+ things will go Much Better for You,+ the Children.......

Those people know what they're doing,+ it takes Time to make danm Sure all the Is are dotted,+ the Ts crossed,...... It takes a proper Paper Trail,+ Evidence........
When they are Ready,.... They'll Move with it......

I listened,+ consoled Debbie for 3 Years while her "X" was pulling the $h!t he was doing,......
Til 1 day the DSS,+ the Sheriffs showed up at the backdoor with her kids,.....
Things are Still far from Perfect,.....
But,.....
The "X" is on the outside now,+ the Best he can do is to keep filing False Petitions, which keep getting thrown out of court.....But as long as there's Some Kind of Petition pending in the court,.....
He doesn't bother paying Support.......

I figure, 2 more years,+ the youngest will be Of Age, so the Support Petitions will continue til then,+ the Support will Never be paid.......

Again,...........
Be Patient..............

I know it's not Easy,.....
But it IS the Best Course.......

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

there have been a couple of cases where the kids sued, after turning 18, and won, back support, to help them thru college.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

I would not be patient and here is an example of why that is so.

"http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/14/bodies.found.ap/index.html"

I have also had personal experience with DSS (as it is called in my state) and know that, generally speaking, they deal with what they are forced to deal with better than what they want to deal with. That is not to say that there aren't great social workers - there are, but many are not and it is those persons who don't act when they should. I have also found that the lazy ones tend to be the same ones who will try to bull rush you into thinking that they are the absolute and final authority on whatever issue you are dealing with. They aren't and, as long as you know what you are talking about, you can beat them procedurally and in court. I know this because I have done both and I did it as a third party and as a non-attorney.

They're your kids - do what you have to do and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. As I said before, its best to let your attorney handle things now that you have a good one but be very proactive in working with him/her, because you understand the dynamics of the family situation better than he/she does.

 

[joed]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

Get a separate lawyer to represent your son. The CAS should pay this. Your son can tell the lawyer he wants to live with you if that is your goal and sounds like it is.

 

[JCF350]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

there have been a couple of cases where the kids sued, after turning 18, and won, back support, to help them thru college.

If you owe child support in FLA you owe till you die if it's not paid.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

then the estate owes it.

 

[bandit86]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

I would not be patient and here is an example of why that is so.

"http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/14/bodies.found.ap/index.html"

I have also had personal experience with DSS (as it is called in my state) and know that, generally speaking, they deal with what they are forced to deal with better than what they want to deal with. That is not to say that there aren't great social workers - there are, but many are not and it is those persons who don't act when they should. I have also found that the lazy ones tend to be the same ones who will try to bull rush you into thinking that they are the absolute and final authority on whatever issue you are dealing with. They aren't and, as long as you know what you are talking about, you can beat them procedurally and in court. I know this because I have done both and I did it as a third party and as a non-attorney.

They're your kids - do what you have to do and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. As I said before, its best to let your attorney handle things now that you have a good one but be very proactive in working with him/her, because you understand the dynamics of the family situation better than he/she does.

This is so frieking scary, exactly what I was worried about all day today. She had 3 more kids since I left, the total at her house is her 5 (1 mine) 1 from the boyfriends previous relationship, 6 kids alltogether.

As an update, called the school, asked to talk to my son, they said they cant but they'll talk to him. they didnt call me by lunch time so I called again, he didn't goto school. I called CAS, explained the strory to the worker that works with the one I currently deal with as mine was on lunch, said she'll get right back to me. never called. I caslled the ploice department, talked for about 15 minutes, explained my situation, they didn't have reasonable grounds to go in and suggested I wait and let CAs do their work
called my lawyer, she called the other lawyer.
The other lawyer went to the house to check on my son, said he was visible distraught, missed all day of school because he was too shook up to go to school.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

If I were in this situation, one of the first things that I would do is to have my attorney find out why I was being denied information. While courts can and do deny noncustodial parents information, access and other things in certain situations, they have to have a good reason to do so. You have already stated that you have visitation rights, and I am assuming that this does not involve external supervision, so I have to believe that you are not viewed by the court as being a person who is detrimental to your son's well being. It seems to me that it is time to insist on being directly informed at any time that he does not show up at school, etc.

Someone else mentioned having your son tell the court who he wants to live with. I didn't notice mention of his age in this thread, and I don't know what the rules are in Canada or your Province, but the acceptance of a child's choice in this regard is usually driven by age. In many states in the U.S., that age is 14. If there is a similar rule in Canada, and your son is of the appropraite age, you may be able to cut right to the bottom line by scheduling a hearing to determine his wishes.

I know that you are worried but hang in there. If your attorney is aggressive, you should be able to get a lot done in less time than you might think.

 

[bandit86]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

he is 9, the supposed age for that is 12, but of all the lawyers I talked to it's not entirely up to the child at that age. Courts can assign a lawyer to the child, to which her lawyer consented to today, and depending on the maturity of the child the courts MAY take their opinion.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

That's great! Sounds like laws in Canada are pretty progressive.

 

[orion25]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

Hire a lawyer and put him/her on retainer in your sons name. The next time he is with you take him to the lawyer. Let the lawyer ask all the questions then have the lawyer (on your sons behalf ) file whatever motions are necessary.

 

[PW2]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

It's called a guardian ad litem, and they are lawyers who represent only the child's interests. If you can't get the court to appoint one, Hire one yourself to represent the child.

Not sure what the rules are in Canada, but usually there are specific laws banning DSS from discussing any case involving minors to any other third party that is not directly involved. They generally take that pretty seriously.

 

[External Combustion]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

I am absolutely with jay merril on this one. I have seen our courts turn a six year old girl back to her mother who was pimping her instead of giving custody to the father who was a self supporting doctoral student with a perfect investigated background. Most government workers only care about clearing the paerwork of of their desks and will take the path of least resistance. Most are idealist when they start, but soon lose their enthusiasm. Most also do not know the law well and the will make the public think that they do to hide this flaw.

Here in the States most of the PCS people will tell you they have the right to do a home inspection. They do only under two circumstances; 1. is if you initially give them consent. If you do then the law assumes prior consent from then on. 2. is with a court issued warrent, remember no mattter what the field worker says and believes they are looking for evidence of a crime. Hopefully Canada is the same. I bellieve Canada is also a common law country instead of a civil law country

Hang in there and contact every official you can on a daily basis. When you become such a pain that they want it to stop, they will give you legal relief. This priciple is so old that Jesus mentioned it in the Bible.

He is your kid. There was nothing that I wouldn't do for mine, and that is why I have learned the system. Knowledge is power.

You are on the right track. Please keep us informed. PM me please.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: how can I get around privacy law?

PW2, you are generally correct about the third party issue and believe me when I tell you that some DSS folks will try to use that when an informed third party is brought in by one of the interested parties. What I have found is that all have to be careful about what they say or do because the privacy issue is a rightfully important one. What happens though, is that the good and concientious social workers will tell you how to go about getting court approved permission for third party involvement, while the bad ones will try everything they can to keep you out of it.

Those who can afford lawyers should use them and they should select an attorney who specializes in family law. I don't know that I would describe the laws as being any more byzantine that some others, but it sure seems that way sometimes. For this reason, having a person who knows the territory well is essential.

For those who can't afford legal help, things get a bit more complicated. If the person is accused of any kind of abuse, which often happens falsely when one parent is trying to gain advantage over the other, court appointed representation is usually available. Short of that, though, there seems to be very little sympathy for the average person having to struggle through protecting their own interests, in a world that they wouldn't be expected to understand. If the individual is well educated and able to do solid research on the published rules, they can usually sort through the mess eventually. If they don't possess these qualities, things aren't so simple and that is where the third party can assist. I am reluctant to elaborate further in a public forum because I am in the middle of a fight on behalf of a friend right now. What I will say is that it can be done and both the DSS folks and the courts will allow it, if you take care of certain legal issues. I can also tell you that doing this works because I had a major victory in court for my friend recently and I'm not done yet.

Good info about the ad litem too. They are not infalible though, and I think the affected parent is wise to keep his/her own attorney watching what is going on, because there can be a little too much friendliness between the court and the ad litem at times. Bear in mind that these folks don't usually act as an ad litem once so they tend to build relationships with the court and the DSS folks. You'll have to pardon my cynicism because, while I really do believe that there are lots of good and very well intentioned folks trying to protect kids, and how a person views the relationships involved will depend on which side of things they are on, I have seen a few horror stories. One additional thought is that, I believe that in most jurisdictions, the court is the one to appoint an ad litem. I may be wrong about this but that is my current understanding.

Once again, best wishes to the OP because, given what is at stake, this is difficult both on an emotional and legal level.