1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

[desertfx41]

Updated May 13 with compression test info. ---Just like the title says, the boat will start and run just fine with the rabbit ears hooked up out of the water, but once you put it into the water it will not start. If I partially elevate the motor out of the water it will run for 15-20 seconds and then stops. There is oil in the water around the motor during this process. The water pump on the boat works fine and I just had the fluid in the lower unit changed. Any help would be awesome, thanks a lot.

 

[hugepackfan]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

I was reading the cold start procedures and it mentions tilting the motor up some to reduce back pressure on the exhaust. Since it comes out thru the prop you have none with the rabbit ears vs the water... Only diff I can think of...

I got an 86 110 this spring. Runs good and real happy with it so far. It already had the VRO disabled (I dont care either way), just curious if you are running yours?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

(Engine Won't Start or Hard Starting In Water)
(Joe Reeves)

The Evinrude and Johnson engines, starting in 1973, have what is called Magneto Capacitance Discharge ignition, self contained, not dependent on battery voltage. The engine must turn over at least 300 rpms in order for the flywheel magnets rotating past the stator ignition generating coils to supply approximately 300v AC to the powerpack(s), which in turn is needed to supply power to the coils etc etc (spark).

In the water, exhaust back pressure is encountered due to the fact that the exhaust housing (housing between the powerhead and the lower unit) is filled with water. This would drag down the needed rpms, affecting ignition.

Normally the clue to this type problem is that the engine starts fine on a flushette (hose), but is very difficult to start when in the water.

Should this be the case, check the battery, clean and tighten all conections (use a wrench or pliers, not your fingers). Any cable that gets overly warm or hot indicates either a loose, or tight but dirty, or internally corroded cable. And of course check the starter itself.

 

[elhombre]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

just stumbled on this post, I like the exhaust back pressure in the water idea, also, try pull starting it with a rope. i've started my 120hp omc this way several times.

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

I appreciate the replies. The exhaust was the first thing that came to my mind because of how the motor starts in the water with the engine tilted to where the prop is mostly out of the water. It runs for 10 secs or so and then dies. The batteries are brand new (replaced yesterday) and all the connections look fine. The starter seems to be operating just fine.

I even let the motor warm up for 10 minutes before putting it in the water the first time, and it still wouldn't run. I will be replacing the choke assembly on the engine today due to it leaking a lot of fuel. We'll see if that fixes the in the water problem or not. Any other thoughts would be great, thanks again.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

choke assembly, 1988 does not have a choke. it has a primer solenoid, what postion is the red handle in. it must be like this picture to operate normally.

i assume it will start and run on muffs. if so set the idle up some, and try in the water, will run great on muffs, but no back pressure. so for the engine to idle normally in the water, the muffs idle has to be high, then get it fine tuned in the water. 650-700 IN THE WATER, AND IN GEAR.

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

Yup, that is the piece. I guess it is a primer solenoid then. Well, that is replaced, in the correct position, and the engine starts much better now. Of course that had nothing to do with the fact that is won't start in the water. I tested it a little further today right after I put the new solenoid on. I ran the motor on muffs for 10 minutes and then immediately after that, I backed the boat into the water just enough to lower the motor into the water so that only the water inlets were submerged. I then tried to start it. It would turn over for a few seconds, and then die. I tried that a few times with no luck. After that, I lowered the motor all the way into the water to see what it did and NOTHING. Literally nothing as if I had no battery no nada. I dropped it off at a local shop today, so we'll see what it is. BTW, the prop was not submerged in the water during this test, so exhaust back pressure should not have been a factor. I will post the findings as soon as I have them, but if I were to guess, I would say it is something electrical or a seal in the lower unit.

 

[Solittle]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

Let us know what the shop finds please as I have a pair of these 1987s.

My 110s need the primer engaged for quite a bit to catch and settle down. I have also been told to tilt the engines up a tad when starting in the wate. It allows a bit more fuel in the carb float bowls.

How long has it been since the carbs were rebuilt?

This may seem off the wall but have the t-starts been removed? Those engines tend not to idle/run well unless they are allowed ot reach normal operating temp.

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

I pulled the carbs off first thing when I bought the boat. I used a torch cleaning tool to go through all the jets. I did not do an entire rebuild on them though. I have one rebuild kit, but it seemed a bit of a pain. By t-starts are you referring to thermostats? If so, I have not done the thermostat yet. That sounds like a good part to replace next. Since I have had the boat (2 weeks) I have done/replaced: spark plugs/wires, cleaned carbs/replaced broken gaskets, replaced all fuel and coolant lines, new batteries, and new fluid in the lower unit. I spoke to the owner of the shop where I got the primer solenoid, and he said in his experience these motors are bulletproof. I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you guys know what happens.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

In addition to my initial reply., your attempts to start the engine in the water by tilting the engine up to a point where the propeller is out of the water defeats the purpose of having the engine in the water.

That tilted up position has the engine at a angle whereas the fuel mixture must be pulled uphill so to speak. I'm surprised it started at all, but the 10 second run or so, then stopping is a normal reaction of that attempt. The engine is designed to start in a normal vertical position.

When trouble shooting a problem, have the engine in its normal vertical running posiiton, otherwise you're simply adding to the problem.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

you may have also toasted your impeller, with it being dry.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

What's your compression readings on this motor? I've had several motors that were low on compression and would get allergic to water...
- Scott

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

Thanks for the advice on not starting it tilted. When I first did this, the motor was started vertically out of the water for 10 minutes and then vertically in the water with no success. Every attempt after that was just an experiment to figure out the problem. I have not done a compression test on the motor myself. The shop I have it at did one and said it was fine, but I do not have those numbers. I'd be excited if it were only the impeller, so maybe I'll get lucky.

Just curious, why would a bad impeller allow the motor to start out of the water but not in the water?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

A faulty impeller has no bearing on starting the engine. You could start the engine without the entire lower unit.... BUT a overheating problem would surface rather quickly the same as a complete engine with a bad impeller.

Now, re-read my initial reply. The back pressure created when the engine is in the water is dragging the cranking rpms down.

Normally the clue to this type problem is that the engine starts fine on a flushette (hose), but is very difficult to start when in the water.

Should this be the case, check the battery, clean and tighten all conections (use a wrench or pliers, not your fingers). Any cable that gets overly warm or hot indicates either a loose, or tight but dirty, or internally corroded cable. And of course check the starter itself.

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

I picked the boat up from the shop today. They hadn't started work on it yet, so I decided to take it back at least for the weekend to work on it myself. I tried starting the motor with fresh gasoline from a separate tank today. It ran much better out of the water, but still no luck in the water. So guess what Joe, I'll be cleaning, checking, and rechecking every electrical connection on the motor this weekend. I have the materials to replace anything that is bad. We shall see if this works.

By the way, thanks Joe. I had read your initial post, but I had made my own inexperienced deductions from what you said and did not try the things you advised. I will try them now.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

what is your compression on all 4?

also a motor on muffs might run fine on 2 or 3 cylinders.
there is no load on it.

first thing i would do check the compression.
you can replace all the parts on the motor bud if the compression is off its wasted time and money.

reeldutch

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

we ask you to do things in an order. this is called trouble shooting, if not you are wasting your time and money. we've been thru this before. compression, spark, fuel. this is all that is required for the motor to run. now to find out what is wrong. you are our eyes and ears. th impeller has nothing to do with it running at the moment, but in the future.

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

I have not done a compression test on the motor myself. The shop I have it at did one and said it was fine, but I do not have those numbers.

The issue is I do not have a compression test tool. I will buy one tomorrow and do one to give the exact numbers. Good news though, today I did as Joe said and started to go through every electrical connection on the motor (and batteries) to try to find a bad ground or something. The overall condition of the engine wiring harness is CRAP. I replaced several sections of wire and cleaned many (hopefully all) ground connections. THE MOTOR RAN IN THE WATER for about 3 minutes. I then pulled the boat out, adjusted the idle a little, and tightened the shift and throttle cables. Took the boat back down to the water and it would not start. Started out of the water first try after that. Tomorrow I will continue my quest of fixing the harness. I will buy a new engine harness this week.

 

[desertfx41]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

May 13-I did a compression test on all cylinders today. All cylinders were right around 120 psi except one being just above 110. This test was done with the engine cold. I will be installing a new internal wiring harness, power pack, starter solenoid, and new coil packs this Friday. I have a feeling that this will more than cover it, but we'll see. I wanted to get the motor to as close as new as possible to avoid future problems.

 

[mauiboy]

Re: 1988 Johnson 110 hp starts out of water but not in water.

Have you tryed to turn up the idle speed mine did the same thing and i turned up the idle speed and it ran fine.