Just a few questions to start things out.

[*mike]

7 years ago I was given a 1961 Johnson QD-22 10 horse outboard, and Ive been lurking here ever since. Ive scrounged the archives for answers to a couple questions, and I cant find anything yet. Maybe someone here can lend a hand.

1. My outboard runs fine at mid range speed, whether in gear or not, but at high or low throttle it starts missing. At low rpm it dies out, and at high rpm it runs, but power isnt there. I removed the carb silencer and the band of usable rpms got wider, but the missing on low and high rpms is still there. Any thoughts?

2. I cannot find oil plug gaskets around here for the motor, have any of you used teflon thread sealer, or possibly an O ring?

3. A local guy claims that he converted his old johnson to electronic start with the simple addition of modern lawn mower igniton parts, does this sound possible, or is he full of it.

Lets hear your thoughts, guys.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

have cleaned and use a rebuild kit on the carb? any dealer will have the O ring. when were the points last set, cleaned. what maintenance have you done.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

While I am not sure what you mean by "electronic start," it is possible to convert your ignition system to an electronic system. My guess is that your buddy is talking about Brian Miller's "NOVA II Electronic Transistorized Ignition Module." These units were developed for folks who like to race riding lawn mowers, and they replace the points and condensors.

I have been running a pair in a 1969 Johnson 6hp motor for a couple of years with good result. They are sealed units and seem to be very durable. One of the ones that I am using was even submerged under water for a few weeks as a result of Hurricane Katrina. I just wiped it off and installed it without any problem. Before buying any, I also asked someone who had been using them how long they last - he said he didn't know because he had never managed to wear one out.

The link below is for Brian's web site. Scroll down about halfway and you will see the items that I have described.


http://hometown.aol.com/pullingtractor/a1elect.htm



Disclaimer: I am not Brian Miller, his pappy, grandpappy, brother or cousin. Heck, I'm not even his dog and I have no financial interest in his company. He sure does make some cool stuff, though!

 

[*mike]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Jay, that is the beast, or at least a very close cousin to the beast. Im boggled as to how it is hooked up/works.

Tahsasdaddy-

Engine is tuned up to spec and carb is good per local boat engine repair man, but we are all human, right?

To me, it seems like its getting too much fuel/not enough air and I have replaced the fuel pump with a mikuni vaccum fuel pump. It ran fine last summer, ran the engine dry and put it up for storage, last fuel I had in it before storage had been treated with Seafoam.
Although the pump has been in for several seasons would it be possible that its too high a pressure, and has finally blown a seal in the carb?

 

[Solittle]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

And how did this repair man determine that the carb was good?

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Why did you replace the fuel pump with a mikuna? What were the original symptoms to warrant it?

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

The NOVA II is very easy to install. First remove the coils and condensors for each cylinder. Save the screws that were used to mount the points because the ones that come with the NOVA II are not the right size/thread count for the OMC armature plate. Mount each NOVA II where the points mounted previously. There are two wires coming out of each NOVA II - one is the ground and the other is spliced to the coil wire that was previously connected to the points.

When you buy these units, you will also receive an instruction page, which gives the info that I have just provided.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

ok, that's sounds a tad weird. If you mount the nova2 where the points were, it does not seem close enough to the flywheel to get any magnetic pass by. Also, if you remove the coils/magnetos, what is producing the high voltage for the spark? Are there external components to this system that are not mentioned?

 

[F_R]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

ok, that's sounds a tad weird. If you mount the nova2 where the points were, it does not seem close enough to the flywheel to get any magnetic pass by. Also, if you remove the coils/magnetos, what is producing the high voltage for the spark? Are there external components to this system that are not mentioned?

Perhaps that was a typo and he meant remove the POINTS and condensers? As I understand it, the gizmo senses the voltage reversal in the coil primary as the magnets go by the first/second two legs of the coil. Modern lawn mowers have the same system built right into the coils....."As I understand it"......which I don't.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

If the gizmo senses the magnets it's pretty far away from the rim sitting where the points were. Still seems weird but I guess the system works so I don't understand it fully!

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Does it have good compression, even across both cylinders? Poor/low compression will affect how it runs.

 

[*mike]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Solittle- I took the motor to him, showed him what it was doing and he went over it. Thats about all I can tell you. Unfortunately, there are not a bunch of "Knowledgeable repairmen" in this neck of the woods, let alone those who dont look at that old girl and just tell me to buy a new one.

Samott- the pump has been on for four years. The diaphagm in the original pump wore out, and it was put the mikuni pump on or not fish until I found a replacement part. Then, after a while, it didnt seem it was neccesary to drop cash on repairing the old one.

Jay- thanks for the heads up. Id read that they were for single cylinder engines and that was throwing me off. Seems like just the ticket to get the old girl runnin better, well- that and a new carb . Anyone ever price those things?

Ill see what I can do and report back on compression test.

 

[*mike]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Well....... So much for the guy being a competent repairman. While I was checking compression, I noticed some particulate in the carb bowl. Seeing how I drained, flushed and cleaned the gas tank two weeks ago, I thought this was odd. So I decide to take the carb off and take a look inside for myself.

BINGO- Main jet tube had come unscrewed from the top of the carb and fell to the table upon tear down. High end metering screw bushing/nut was loose and allowing the metering screw to turn without any travel in regards to the seat itself, the low end screw in the bottom bowl had what appeared to be epoxy surrounding it, and would bottom out on this gunk instead of the seat leaving a 1/16" gap, and gaskets were in sad shape.

Make a long story short- Fixed what was wrong myself, and shelled out 10 bucks for gasket material (enough to last my lifetime). The thing runs stronger than I can remember, but this might be just me excited about having the old girl back in action.

Moral of the story-Always get a second opinion.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

If the gizmo senses the magnets it's pretty far away from the rim sitting where the points were. Still seems weird but I guess the system works so I don't understand it fully!

Nah. It's monitoring voltage and polarity from the coils. When they reach some preset state, the thing unshorts itself, just like the points do when they open, and the sparks fly. Pretty cool.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Sadly, a sign on the door that reads "Outboard Repair" doesn't necessarily mean that a competent person is inside. These days, that's especially true with the older outboards. You can't plug a diagnostic computer into them, so lots of "technicians" haven't a clue.

It's sad, but there it is.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Nah. It's monitoring voltage and polarity from the coils. When they reach some preset state, the thing unshorts itself, just like the points do when they open, and the sparks fly. Pretty cool.

Oh, that's kinds cool. Sounds like a good idea then.

 

[F_R]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

Actually that is what I was trying to say too. As the magnets go past the legs of the coil, there is a point at which the voltage reverses in the coil's primary winding. That is what the gizmo is looking at.

 

[*mike]

Re: Just a few questions to start things out.

So, All I need are two of them, and I just take out the points and wire them in line with the coil? Sounds easy enough. So............other than easier cold starting, what benefits might a guy see using these?

Im gonna have to go internet on them. A local NAPA has them, but they arent NOVA 2's and they are asking 21.95 each.

CATransplant- My thoughts exactly. I am in no way "Classically Trained" as a small engine repairman, but it only took me a minute or two to realize that I paid good money for a guy to literally "Have a look at my motor". But to be fair, he did tell me that was what he'd do.