MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

[tcgravy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

UPDATE:

Checked compression and changed oil.

Compression is good in all cylinders except for #5 (PORT, second from the rear)

140-150 psi in all other cylinders
90 PSI in cylinder #5

spark plugs on Cylinders 3 + 5 had inside conductor corrosion likely due to water, with the corrosion being worse on cylinder #5.

When turning over the engine, a small amount of water came out of cylinder #3.

thoughts?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

You need to pressure test the coolant passages.

 

[Don S]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Oil level is 3 inches above full.

You could have perfect compression and still have a cracked block. Pull the intake off and look around the pushrods, you will find your crack.

Even if the exhaust manifolds or risers had a big hole in them, the water would blow out the exhaust while running, not go into the oil.

 

[tcgravy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Pressure test on the cooling system revealed that there is a leak into cylinder #3.

So that leaves us with coolant leaking into cylinder 3, low compression on cylinder 5 and a bad spark plug in cylinder 5. Spark plug in cylinder 3 was also rusty with water.

 

[Squid Billy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Looks like it's time to pull a head.

 

[RJLeuwen]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Sounds like a blown head gasket and posible a cracked to me

RJ

 

[JustJason]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,

 

[tcgravy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

That is what I am thinking, time to pull the head on that side.

Do you think I will be able to see a bad head gasket? Or a bad head? Or am I going to be shooting in the dark?

Any advice on checking valves and cylinder walls?

Also.....any ideas on the connection of the leak in cylinder #3 to the low compression in cylinder #5?

Thanks for the help so far....and yes, my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard....

 

[RJLeuwen]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Seeing as you got water out of #3 plug hole would suspect the crack to be there. most likely in the valve seat area.

The head gasket could be blown out between #3 and #5 or you could have bad valve in #5

Or you may get lucky and just have a blown head gasket!!!

You'll see when you take that head off.

Good Luck

RJ

 

[Lakester]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Pressure test on the cooling system revealed that there is a leak into cylinder #3.

So that leaves us with coolant leaking into cylinder 3, low compression on cylinder 5 and a bad spark plug in cylinder 5. Spark plug in cylinder 3 was also rusty with water.

hello,

does sound as if something is not looking good with cyl #5. sorry to hear it. if it was mine, i would at least get a torque wrench and retorque the cyl head bolts on bank 1,3,5,7. may not prove anything, but it is a -0- cost test. then ck the cyl pressures on that bank.

hate to say it, but imo pulling the heads is best done by someone who has done it before. but if ur work is good, a good sevice manual may help u thorugh it. but that level work just requires some technique and know how. valve lash has to be reset, ignition timing has to be reset, fuel delivery and the intake requires knowing what has to be where, etc. maybe u got a mechanic type of friend as, imo, the change is definitely in the class of engine building/rebuilding. one phase of it, but certainly part of it...

good luck.

regards
lakester

 

[tcgravy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Head disassembled today:

Found a break in the head gasket near a water/cooling hole in cylinder #3. Also found a decent puddle of water there in #3. No water in cylinder #5, but the piston does seem to have some buildup on its crown.

Pistons/Cylinder walls in #1 and #7 look and feel perfect.

Also, after disassembling the manifolds/risers checked on the flapper on that side - flapper is obviously broken, one side of it is completely missing, meaning about half of it is still there.


Currently planning on replacing the head gasket and the flapper...changing oil again...checking...and hoping for the best. Any other thoughts on things that need to be done?

Any ideas on what is going on with cylinder #5? (low compression, 90)


I have pictures to upload, but I can't get it to work right now - they dont do much more justice than what I've described above, but I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Too late now but it would have been wise to do a cylinder leak down test to see if the compression loss was due to valves or rings. While you have the head off might be a good idea to redo the head. You can do the leak down test by just putting the head back on and doing it then. At least if you find its the valves, you haven't lost much time and expense...just a head gasket.

 

[tcgravy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Yea - don't really have the tools to do a leakdown test right now. We did put some oil into cylinder #5, then turn it over to see if compression changed, compression did not go up - generally meaning its not the rings (this was done before tear down)

I guess my question is could it be another problem? or should I be looking specifically at the valves on that cylinder? is there any way to check the valves while the head is off? No real experience working with valves...any thoughts helpful.

Also going to need to "valve lash" upon rebuild, correct? Also no experience with this, I'm sure we can do it, bu twords to the wise there would be helpful too.

 

[RJLeuwen]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Seeing that you are better than half way apart I would pull the other head and take them to a machine shop and have a valve job done on both of them.

(Just a sugestion)

The shop will also ck them for cracks and re-surface them worth the extra bucks being that it is a 20 yr old engine

Make you use Marine grade gaskets when you reassemble it!!!

RJ

 

[tcgravy]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

I hear what you are saying - but this engine was completely remanufactured 2 years ago, so I'm not looking at it as a 20 yr old engine. Compression is also great on all cylinders except for that one.

Still worth a thought. Wish there was a way to check that valve while the head is off.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

You could turn the head upside down and put a liquid in the combustion chamber of the head and see where it leaks out from.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94190

 

[RJLeuwen]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Do all the valves look the same, or do the ones in #5 look a little concaved or set down in the seat farther than the ones in the other 3 combustion chambers?

Try the liquid test also like Bruce said, watch for it to run out of the ports

RJ

 

[reelfishin]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

It is possible for a bad manifold to put water in the crankcase. Water remaining in a cylinder after shutdown which entered through a bad manifold can indeed drain down past the rings after sitting. The amount depends on both cylinder and ring condition and the amount of water. It's just not the most likely scenario. If a motor has been run in saltwater, you have to look at everything twice as hard. I can't count how many rotted manifolds and heads I've found over the years, even on newer engines. I just pulled the head from a Merc 140 that was rotted clean through behind the water neck into the port area. The motor was filled with water, as was the crankcase. The bad part was that the owner had cranked the motor over with a cylinder full of water thus bending two rods in the process. The bad part was that the head casting was new only two years ago and the lower end was replaced with one from a non salt environment and overhauled at that time. It took only two seasons of light use to rust away.
While I'm sure that owner did no maintenance or flushing, it does show how fast salt eats at a motor.

With all you have already found, I'd be getting ready for some major work or even a complete overhaul. It will depend on how far the damage has progressed. The rusty water in the cylinder don't sound too promising to me.
Usually the next step is a rusted, seized motor.

 

[thundercat 9]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

Make sure to check the "land" thickness between the water jacket and the cylinder bore. There has to be enough surface there for the gasket to mate with.

 

[Big Boat Bay Buster]

Re: MILKSHAKE - water in engine oil, where to start?

I just rebuilt the same engine '87, 350. The heads are known to crack, check around the exhaust seats. #2 & 4, #3 & 5. Both my heads were cracked. One that I got from a junk yard was cracked too! ALSO, my intake manifold sprung a leak.

I rebuilt with NEW manifolds and risers. I better be good now!