Lund Nisswa Restoration

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Stringers are fitted, embarrassed to say that it took me two days to get those suckers in there level.
There are a ton of factors to deal with when fitting these, the thing that got me the worst was the dimensional lumber was cupped, and I had no extra width to cut it square. If there is a next time I do this I just may go the plywood route.

I want to start waterproofing by applying Epoxy to these cut stringers, do I thin it or not? How many coats, within a certain time period or not?

So in your guy's experience, a quality wood flour/mixed with epoxy-resin to a peanut butter consisitency will provide a quality "Stick" to the floor?
How about chopped strand glass, will that do anything for the peanut butter?


Now for some good weather so I can grind some more.

Next thing is to get the three bulkhead templates made.

Am ready to Rock-N-Roll as soon as the Marine plywood gets here next week, Hope it is Dry.

Have all the fiberglassing materials I believe is needed, I suppose I should practice some layups on scrap wood, since I have never done this, could practice those fillets too if I build a Mock-up.

Lund.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

One coat is good enough for water protection, two if you want to be really anal It's more important to cover the end grain than anything else BTW.

Yep, peanut butter will provide a good glue. Mix in some chopped glass for extra strength if you like, it certainly won't hurt at all. I use that for my stringers, plain wood flour for most other fillets.

Good idea on the practice. I got my practice before starting this on my first boat... the one I never got into the water.

I haven't added up what my boat's cost me so far... it'd just make me sad. I do try to save money when I can, but spend it when it counts. Let's see, a rough tally...

Reman engine: $1800
New parts for sterndrive: $300
Epoxy (8 gals total) $450
Epoxy fillers: $150
Plywood: $260
8 oz glass: $50
Roving: $50
Biaxial: $150
New rollers for trailer (28): $250
Trailer axles: $160
Trailer brakes: $500
Trailer swing tongue: $130
Break-away kit: $50
Brake controller: $30
Trailer fenders: $100
Trailer lights: $100

Hours spent repairing in the last year: about 600
Money I could have made working at my "real job" that long: $32,000

Ok, now I'm depressed. Time for a beer

Erik

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Finally removed the last of the rotted wood from the boat.

Now that the Stringers are cut and level, side lockers were no longer needed as the only reference for the floor level, so now that is removed as well, one side was rotten, other was not, needed them out to gain access to the side of the hull, as the floor goes under there and gets glassed to the hull sides.

Now for the Grinding, just have to grind until happy with it I guess and then she is ready for the reassemble process.

The tear apart took a month of working on it to some degree almost every day, what I didn't know when I began was that everything would come out, so I was slowly peeling the Banana.

Took alot of pictures along the way, and wrote down a ton of measurements for reference.


Lund

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Looks good so far - good job grinding and cleaning.

It really does start to feel good when you're putting things back together.. the teardown is the hard part that way

Erik

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Dang it,
I ground a hole through the hull today!

It is right on the top of a strake, I was cleaning up the bedding area for the stringers and bulkheads when it happened, about the size of a pencils lead.
How would you fix this?

Lund

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

It won't make a difference, you'll be glassing the inside any way, all you may need to do is touch up the outside later.

 

[oops!]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

anything can be fixed in a glass boat......thats the beauty of glass

lund...your doin great...eriks got ya covered/

and erik.......can i join ya in a beer cryin over the cost??????

5200 at 23 bucks a small tube?.......ill go 7 grand in a long block before ill do 23 bucks a small tube of 5200..... !!!!!

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

That hole happens to be directly under where a bulkhead will be placed, do I need to put a patch on there prior to bedding in the bulkhead? Or is there a better way to handle this small hole?

Yes I have 4 tubes of the 5200 sealant as well, what am I gonna do with all of it? My plan was/is to use it to glue the floor to the tops of the stringers, my goal is to use alot less screws than I took out.

Off to grind some more today.
Lund

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Cannot Post any Pictures today for some reason, comes back with invalid format;

Anyway

Two Questions for you guys;
1.) The original Transom is hour glass shaped, it was "not" Glassed to the hull sides. It was glassed on the bottom of the hull. When I cut out the new Transom Should I extend the ends to meet the side of the hull to apply glass from Transom to side of hull? There will be a void at the outer edges of the transom that would be filled with foam, this is because the shape of the Transom, it is not flat all the way across, just the mid 2/3 are flat glass, the outer 1/3 is formed/concaved.

**See Post #63/#61 for visual reference since I couldn't upload Pix today.


2.) The boat sitting on the Bunk trailer right now is like a noodle when I shake it. How do I go about ensuring the boat hull is True before reassembly, when I look at everything looks straight, but that is just by eyeballing it.

Thanks for any inputs;
Marine Ply came in, Nice Stuff! Maybe Overkill/makes me feel good.
She is going back together, Hell or High Water.......
1 May is goal- We'll See!

Lund Nisswa

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

You should put a small patch over the inside where you sanded through, but it doesn't need to be very big.

You do need to get the hull straight before going any further, but don't expect it to be Symmetrical, the dimentions may be off by an inch or two.
The wetted surface is the most important part, but the deck still needs to fit back on, so measure it as you go also.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

On the transom, you could run the wood all the way to the hull sides, just seal or glass that area of the wood first and leave a hole for any water that may get behind it to drain out.

The other option is not worry about it, it was strong enough when designed and built the first time with just the flat area being covered with plywood.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Cannot Post any Pictures today for some reason, comes back with invalid format;

Anyway

Two Questions for you guys;
1.) The original Transom is hour glass shaped, it was "not" Glassed to the hull sides. It was glassed on the bottom of the hull. When I cut out the new Transom Should I extend the ends to meet the side of the hull to apply glass from Transom to side of hull? There will be a void at the outer edges of the transom that would be filled with foam, this is because the shape of the Transom, it is not flat all the way across, just the mid 2/3 are flat glass, the outer 1/3 is formed/concaved.

**See Post #63/#61 for visual reference since I couldn't upload Pix today.


2.) The boat sitting on the Bunk trailer right now is like a noodle when I shake it. How do I go about ensuring the boat hull is True before reassembly, when I look at everything looks straight, but that is just by eyeballing it.

Thanks for any inputs;
Marine Ply came in, Nice Stuff! Maybe Overkill/makes me feel good.
She is going back together, Hell or High Water.......
1 May is goal- We'll See!

Lund Nisswa

1) I'd get it as close to the sides as you can comfortably. When I've done a transom I've cut it close, then puttied (peanut butter) the sides to fill in. I'm guessing your boat it's optional since the original design didn't have it, so you don't NEED to do it, strictly speaking.


2) The technique for checking straightness is as follows:

a. Take a non-stretchable piece of string or twine to the boat, about the same length as the hull.

b. Choose a reference point in the back corners of the hull.. the edge of the top cap or gunwale works well. You'll be using a pair of points on port and starboard corners.

c. Attach/hold one end of the string to the corner, then run the string across the hull to the other gunwale, in a diagonal forward, about to the point the hull starts to narrow to the bow. This is gonna roughly divide your hull interior in two pieces.

d. Pull the string tight and mark with a piece of tape or sharpie on the string where it met the gunwale.

e. Repeat for the other side. If the two measured distances are the same, then your hull is straight. If one is longer than the other then the hull is twisted toward the forward endpoint of the line you measured.

Here's a crude pic:

The top hull is ok, because the red and green lines are the same length.

The bottom hull is twisted, so the red line is longer than the green.

Note that all boats are asymmetric to some degree, so I wouldn't worry about it if it's only a couple millimeters....

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Forgot to mention... don't worry about the hole, it happens. I'd recommend you grind out a dished spot around it about an inch on all sides, put some peanut butter in the hole itself, then cover with 2-3 layers of progressively larger glass scraps, epoxied in. Do this whenever.

Finish off with a backfill from the outside... you can use a piece of plastic over whatever patching material you use (marine-tex?) to fair the plug.

I've currently got three tiny holes in my hull to fix... power tools go through fiberglass really quick... then there's those two through-hulls I don't need any more...

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

A word of caution on the drawing from EG. Doing it this way will get the top of the hull sides sort of lined up, but this measurement won't do anything to get the running surface of the hull true. Most hull and deck molds are now made with a CNC, they cut the shape in foam and work to a finished mold from there. This method gets a fairly true shape, I say "fairly" because even many new molds are off by an inch or more. Older molds were shaped and made by hand, frequently it appears the tape measure was lost during the construction, because things can be way off.

The deck and hull are supposed to line up when taken from the mold, frequently they don't and there is a great deal of prying, pushing, swearing and pounding to get them together.

Get the running surface taken care of first, then put the stringers in, but keep in mind the deck needs to fit in place, so measure the deck and top of the hull during the process. The side walls of the hull will be somewhat flexible and you can move them into place, so the deck will fit even if the measurements aren't perfect.

If the running surface is crooked, hooked or has some rocker in it, it can mess up the performance, that's why time needs to be spent on getting it right.

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Erik, Ondarvr
Now that was some great feed back.

1st- Erik, I performed the string measurement just for the fun of it, and one side is longer than the other by 3/16".

2nd- Ondarvr, trying to comprehend your intent;

- "Get the running surface taken care of first, then put the stringers in"
-- How do I get the running surface taken care of, what do you mean?

- "But keep in mind the deck needs to fit in place, so measure the deck and top of the hull during the process".
-- I just dont get it, this is a 3 piece 8 foot lower deck about six feet wide and tapering (outsides are glassed in and a mid removable fuel Tank center section). I understand that once the stringers are in and as square as can be that the deck pieces should be somewhat symetrical and close to the same size, but I was thinking they are sort of gonna be a "Cut to Fit situation".


- "The side walls of the hull will be somewhat flexible and you can move them into place, so the deck will fit even if the measurement aren't perfect."
-- If you are refferring to Eriks X-Dimension that I measured as 3/16" off here I assume, that is what I was thinking is the flex would allow for correction of this, and to pay particular attention while attaching the deck to the sides of hull with glass.

- "If the running surface is crooked, hooked or has some rocker in it, it can mess up the performance, that's why time needs to be spent on getting it right."
-- This is exactly why I want to get it right, the boat does over 40mph, do not want it porpoising or weaving.

So many questions I always seem to have, but "No One" around here builds boats, thank goodness for this Forum!

Lund

P.S. Is there something wrong with the image loading on the site today, the site gives an error when trying load a image?
Is anyone else having this problem?
Maybe I have exceeded my allowable limit of questions and pictures-LOL.

Darn it, work is getting in my way of boat building again, gotta go.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Running surface.
Depending on how the hull is supported it may be twisted or warped from all the moving around inside. You need to sight down the outside of the hull and use string lines to get it back into shape. It may move easily when you walk around in the boat so it may need to be supported with long boards. This needs to be done before you put in the stringers or they will lock it into the wrong shape. After this has been done, then you can force the rest of it to fit together.

When I say deck I don't mean the floor (sole), I mean the cap. Sorry, it can be difficult to switch back and forth from terms used here to terms used by boat builders. The floor can just be cut to fit, the side walls of the hull can be flexed to fit into the deck (normally the deck slides over the hull side and over laps an inch or two). If you find that the with the running surface of the hull in the correct shape puts the top edge of the hull sides in a totally wrong postition, then something is wrong, so recheck it. If it's just a little off, don't worry about it.

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

Transom Pieces are cut to fit and ready to epoxy together.

Have never worked with Resin before, so I decided to do some practice, mixed up a batch of thin peanut butter, (Baby Food Consistency of Resin, Hardner thoroughly mixed and then added wood flour-Mixed again- and added chopped Glass-Mixed) Practiced on some scrap wood, applied evenly and lightly clamped two pieces toghether, checked it this A.M. and that sucker is like iron.

Then I practiced a bit with some 6oz Cloth, whole different story here, this must take some experience and lots of practice because I made one big sticky mess, that is why the practice is important i guess. Next practice session I am going to try really hard to keep the fingers out of it!

Some specific Epoxy Resin/Hardner Questions
1.) Metering pumps, do you guys use and rely on these for the 2:1 mix or whatever? My resin pump seems to spit and sputter really bad, cannot imagine how I could get a reliable 2:1 mix with it?

2.) Temperature, the shop was at 55degrees when i started, then I turned the heat up, is this too cold to begin applying glass?? I am buying heat lamps today so I can apply heat to a specific area.

3.) I used a respirator and goggles and of course lots of rubber gloves, I was suprised at how little smell this stuff has, is that normal?

4.) Clean-up, I used MEK to clean up a rubber scraper, came right off. If it gets on your skin what is the best method for that?

5.) Frayed edges of Cloth, what do you guys do with that? Cut off all fraying before you start applying? Oh and a Great Big OLD Knife Edge Scissors cut right through that cloth, will have to see how it does on the Biax1708 next.

Today I am going to epoxy the transom halves together, lightly clamp and practice more on laying cloth.

Tommorrow I am going to adhere the Transom Wood to the boat, will the same peanut butter (Resin/Flour/chopped glass be ok for this, or do I need to add a layer of Biax??)

Lund

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

I used PL Polyurethane adhesive to join my transom halvs together. Its 100% Polyurethane and you can get it at lowes or HD. It can be used by a caulk gun and you will need a few clamps or some heavy stuff. It worked great for me. I just put 2 tubes, 1 on each half of the wood and then used a notched plastic trowel and then put them together and clamped the heck out of em. I have some pics. This thing is sooo solid. I did some tests with scrap pieces of ply and tried to pull the halves apart and the wood failed before the bond did in every case. I bonded some 2X4's together and it took a truck and a stump to get them apart and then the wood completely broke! the bond was still strong after that. Ill get you a pic of my transom.

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

sorry to make the page so wide. I dont know how to stop that when i post pics! If you want to get that PL brand Polyurethane you can get it just about anywhere. Hope this helps

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Lund Nisswa Restoration

DrewMitch44;
Thanks for the Input, I have been seriously considering this PL route, especially on bedding the stringers, what is it called exactly PL-6000 or something like that?
So how did you attach your transom wood to the boat glass then?
Thanks.

Lund