wheres our teens headed?

[yourkiddin]

First off let me explain that Im a 42 yr old male. Grew up poor,after high school I joined the Army. Trained at Ft. Benning in the infantry. My unit was the 10th Mountian Division. I learned many skills that never even new existed. I value the leadership training probably the most. I also know the difference between right and wrong.I am married to a wonderful woman and we have one son. I guess I told you the military part so you will understand i feel that my ways are the right ways. we have been married for 21 years,have one 15 year old son. I do love my family a lot, but theres alot of anger and we disagree alot. So it causes havic. I know Im not the only one in this boat. Maybe just the only one handling it this way. A little back ground about marriage. first 5 years wife and I always at the hip. Had a baby boy and things are great until the times of dicipline.When he was old enough to stand and hold himself up to the stereo he would pull on the knobs. I would remove him from it and she would put him back and say it wasn't hurting anything.These type of things continue to get worse, things like bed time. when to be home.the reason im here 2night is to get opinions. so please dont just take my side cause im asking the questions. If im wrong tell me so it can help me look at this a new way.Now the present infne year ago bought a new house in a small middle class subdivision.Son is 14 at this time.All the kids flocked to our house. My son is very hansom,funny and popular. Later smelled ciggerette smoke on him,addmitted he done it.Same with marijauna and alcohol. Now grant it we all done it. I except that. But I want to try and monitor his were abouts and how much he is around these kids. Next he has a girlfriend.After one night at her house under so called supervision. Smell of alcohol again. I say no more. i come home he done got momma driving him back over there. At 1st home by 11 when no school. Then 12 then1 then 3in the morning. My fifteen year old son at his 14 year old girlfriends house till 3 in the morning. Then the calls start coming about spending the night.no no no even wife said no. Well then the girls mother starts calling,it will be ok. So now i come home from third shift,check sons room and he is no where 2 be found.So now school is in i said no running over there after school during the week. Come home after a day of 1st shift.ask where my son is.Well take a guess.His grades have went down hill,seems like he dont want to apply himself.I feel that if he does good in school then there could be more room for visitation.Has took off walking in a rage cause i told him he was not going. Walked about 8 miles to this girls house. Had the sheriffs dept pick him up. twice now. Our relationship is almost non exsistant due to him wanting to do what he wants. we once was so close,its like someone turn a switch off inside of him. i miss him so much and want to teach him how to be a good responsible person. i feel like my wife just wants him to live for fun.never wants to hurt his feelings he is already in 10th grade making up 9th grade classes. he will continue falling behind.then whats next babies,meth,crack, intevention another thing u have 2 understand he wants 2 be over there everyday. the mother will even come and pick him up. 70% of time bring him home also. i cant understand why the mother and father of a 14 yr old girl would even allow this.

 

[locallawoff]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Gidday from Downunder,Welcome to the real world.It also happens here in Australia and worldwide.All you can do is persevere and do your best.I too have had problems with with the tin lids here but as they have grown older they have settled down and are wonderful adults.Hope things work out .Seeya Martin

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

i think it is time for family counciling. the child has no limits from the mother, they are smart, he is playing the two of you against each other, and it is working. there is no telling what he is telling the girlfriends parents as to how you are treating him. "manipulator". i hope the parents are providing birth control.

 

[aspeck]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

yourkiddin, you are in a tough bind, and there is nothing that you are going to be able to do on your own in this instance. Your wife established a pattern 15 years ago of letting your son do whatever he wanted. After 15 years she is not going to change by you telling her to change. And your son is going to resent anything you do to correct his behavior because mom will allow it. You are in a no win situation at this point.

However, it is not hopeless. Do you think your wife would be willing to go to counseling? You need to find a good family/parenting/marriage counselor who will help both of you modify your parenting behavior. Your son NEEDS boundries established in his life, but they need to come from BOTH of you. If you don't know who to call, check with your clergy to see if they would feel comfortable doing this, or if they have someone they would recommend.

Good luck ... remember, it is in your son's best interest.

 

[mike64]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

I agree on family counciling. As has been said, kids are great at playing one parent against another. You and your wife need to agree upon methods of discipline and show a united front to your son. If you guys do disagree at some point on how to discipline him, you should work it out in private, not in front of him. A councilor can be a mediator and help you guys reach some common ground.

And don't worry, fifteen is a tough age but you should get your son back eventually-- Mark Twain said, "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned."

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Family counseling has a poor note to it. I consider that like the Counseling Statements we are familiar with. It annoys everyone involved and makes the person who is counseled only to be more careful and not get caught again.

I am retired AD Army with one son and had a similar problem. Regardless of what you did ...... you were frustrated. Aspeck is right with consulting a clergy. The term Family Counseling just sounds and smells of resentment.

It's time to be a Dad again..... not the disciplinarian but the confidant.

Get involved with your son..... do things with him and his friends. Camping, fishing, shooting, boating ....... you grew up poor and remember how some things were missed. Revert back to when you were young in the Army and there were days when everything sucked. There was always an activity that made days better for everyone.

You have a problem with your star player on your home team. Proving that you are tougher, stronger, louder..... never accomplishes anything.

Sit with your Son, have a human conversation, do some activity together (away from the home...perhaps a road trip)and communicate. There were times I thought my Son and I would never speak again but now we are very close. Every Father goes through this in one way or another but you have to be willing to change too.

The biggest things you can instill is the ability to make the correct decisions, recognize that actions have long term circumstances (good and bad) and be able to come to you for help.

 

[avenger79]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

ok I'll take the other side. I disagree with the counciling. Only because your son isn't going to go, listen, or care. Guess how I know that, my son is 17.

My thoughts. First get your wife to understand what's going on, or she can be like mine and say whatever you deal with him then. He needs strong structure, kids do not get strong structure in school, sports, or even from public officials anymore. Everyone says let them be kids. Which is fine once in awhile but not all the time.

#1 stay strong. set rules and stick to them. My son and I have almost come to blows over things. Then he will think about it and understand. He tries to impose his way through intimidation. The old I can take the old man thing. We've all reached the point, before first realizing no you can't and then later realizing no you shouldn't.
#2 allow priveleges for "good behavior". he wanted to stay out all night like friends, and run all over. he said I didn't trust him. (I was 17 once you know I know what they're doing ) I told him to earn the trust and the priveleges. Now he has set curfews and as long as he sticks to them I allow him to spend the night at friends now and then. I do call their parents though and he knows that.
#3 let him know exactly what you expect and what you will give in return.

Mostly have patience, it gets worse. He will drive soon.

My son and I have always been very close. This year is when he started acting up. The funny part is he tells mom all the time why he doesn't respect what she says and it's because she was like your wife. Give in to anything.

By the way, except for you being 1 year older then me and your son 2 years younger than mine we could probably have twin lives. Except of course I was Artillery.
Kids today are very different. At least when we were growing up we had fear of failure, parents, peers opinions or whatever. Today it's all about what do I want today, right now. Who cares about the consequences. The one thing I got from my son was it was my consequences that cause him to think twice about things. Not teachers, police, other people.
Try to stay close with him as long as you can. Get some bonding hobbies that you do together. My son and I ride atv's hard. I ride like a kid and he likes that. Stay involved with what's going on but remember he is getting near adulthood and sometimes you have to let him put his hand too close to the stove and feel a little heat. Just be there to back him up when he needs it.
Don't feel alone. I know I did at first, then I started talking to other parents and we're all in the same boat. Those who don't think they are are just in denial.

 

[JB]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

A 15 year old is not a child anymore. He is a man in training. He wants respect, not orders. He wants to be heard, not preached to.

Of course he has no experience being a man, except what he thinks he has learned from watching others, including you. He is likely to make mistakes.

Ask him to tell you what he feels, where he wants to go with his life and how he thinks is best to get there. Listen, don't judge. Ask him to tell you what outcomes he expects from different options. Show respect for his ideas and opinions.

He will foul up some things some of the time. Nothing you can do will prevent it, but what you do to support and encourage him when he makes mistakes will make a lot of difference.

When my first born arrived, I got a note from my Dad. Among other things he said one thing that has stuck with me these 50 some years since.

"Do your best to love and support her. There are not enough things you can do wrong to make a good person turn out bad and not enough things you can do right to make a bad person turn out good."

All of my children made mistakes in adolescence, some big ones. I loved and supported them and listened with respect to their ideas. All have turned out to be wonderful, respectable, middle aged people. I would love to take some credit for that, but my Dad's words are always there to humble me.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

JB, your dad was a wise man, and so are you. Great advice!

 

[thurps]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Having raised 5 boys and one girl, of one thing I am sure. They grow up in spite of you, not because of you. All you can do is turn off the tv and game player, expose them to love, camping, fishing, reading, sports and try to throw in a little pride in acomplishment. Mix in a few morals and cast them to the wind. With any luck eventually they will find there way back to there roots. Good luck.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Perfect advice JB. I have a few things to add to that:

Relationships thrive in settings where everyone agrees that nobody is perfect.

Unconditional love is fundamental for building healthy relationships with teenage children who will test their parents and their rules in every possible way. When they do, a busy, stressed-out parent can often react in ways that don?t always convey unconditional love.

I don't know of a parent out there that isn't guilty of acting instinctly. We all need to work harder at being an empathic listener, reserving judgment and hating the bahavior, NOT the child.

Spend weekly time together, one on one?. I'm sure its the last thing he's interested in right now but find something that interests both of you like fishing or hunting or working on a car. This is quality time. Make him feel he is worth spending time with, even when he is at his worst. Make it a one on one time together. Don't do this just once, be consistent.

Share challenging experiences? spend more time, not less, having fun together. It kind of takes the heat off of the issues. Do something you both appreciate and pursue it together with excitement. Dedicate some resources, time, effort, interest, and vigor to developing your interest together.

Look for opportunities for discussion? Ask the right kind of questions. The kind of questions that make them think about things, not just a ?yes? or ?no? questions. Find out what they think, how they would do something, where they would go, and why they think a certain way. Take advantage of reinforcing those moments when a discussion leads to surprising expressions of wisdom from your teen. Talk about controversial subjects as you would a friend or co-worker for whom you have extreme respect. Never belittle their opinions about things. After all, did you know everything when you were a teen?

Listen more and answer less. Nobody wants to be lectured to. If you want your teen to grasp what you are thinking, then stop telling him what you are thinking until your are asked for your opinion. Zip your lip - just be quiet. Stop lecturing, start listening. Your teen won?t be ready to really listen until he becomes the initiator of a discussion, so just hush and get out of the way of him taking the lead.

Keep your sense of humor?Some of us are sour, bitter, and stressed all of the time. Lighten up! When was the last time you really laughed? Even if it?s corny, everyone laughs! You both need to lighten up just a little and keep from falling into a fit of depression and anger.

The key is the two of you being together. This is the time when your relationship with him changes.

Keep in mind the joy of bringing him home at birth. Don?t dwell solely on their current struggles and difficulties.

Let them know where they can and can?t ?go? in your relationship. Tell them what you expect, before something challenges those expectations. Continue to establish your belief system and household rules but do not eliver this message in the same manner. If it didn't work before, it will not work now. If you don't like the results you have to change your method.

Find a way to respect him as a young adult and work around it. If you respect him, he will will respect you. He wants recognition that he is capable of making decisions on his own.

We know how well that is working out for him right now. Maybe you need to discuss how he would parent a child who has the same behavior.

Confront with calmness, correct with firmness, and with a love that has their best interests at heart. Confront their mistakes with matter-of-fact and consequences, unwavering and without emotion or anger. In this way, it will become clear to them through the consequences that they are causing their own grief, not you.

Remember when you raise your voice, it sends a message that you are out of control. Keep your cool, it gives you power. I promise. I am a behavior modification instructor for 150 staff that deals with troubled teens. It works.

Your child needs to know you love them enough to correct and discipline them when they behave in ways that are could be a danger to them or are against your house rules. Also, be sure to approach all discipline on a united front with your spouse. And be sure to reward a teen for good behavior by adding more freedoms and privileges. That?s more important to them than anything else at this age.

You have to give them back control when they have shown you that they are trying. Give them back responsibility. It's the only way they will learn and you will maintain their respect.

Eventually he'll come around.

Remember, relationships thrive when unconditional love is delivered across a bridge of friendship that never stops ? even if your teen doesn?t respond or goes on making mistakes...you love him.

 

[Labman]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Back in the 80's, I married a woman with 2 young boys(4&6), only lasted a couple of years. She and the boys had been alone (no male influence) for too long, husband left just after youngest was born. We did the counseling, tried the family bonding, it got so that my presence and RULES were resented.

I now have a 15 year old daughter, i'm in my mid 50's, more patient, understanding, should work right! Wrong! The last few months, I seem to be getting stupider and stupider! We have been Hunting and Fishing together, (wife stays home) since the Daughter was toilet trained. Now I can't seem to do or say anything right.

I am hoping that this is just a phase, that all teens now are going through.Growing up we had limited access to the big old world, less peer pressure, NO T.V. twisting our lives, telling us that we were too fat, or needed more expensive cloths. Life must be harder on them.

My wife, who is WAY smarter than me, (Daughter still talks to her), tells me it will get better again!
All you can do, IMHO, is LOVE them and be there when your needed, because there is little doubt, that you will be needed!

Good Luck, stay calm!

 

[arboldt]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Excellent posts so far. The most important concepts so far are

1) Keep your voice even. Don't raise your voice no matter how he pulls your strings (boy, is that HARD!)

2) try and find some common activity you are both interested in -- or can be. Since this is a boating forum, do you both like fishing? skiing? sailing?

3) I do urge family counselling -- not so much for you and your son but for you and your wife. You two MUST be united, and the fact you are on totally different wavelengths needs to be resolved -- at least to understanding each other even if not agreeing. If there is a good church in your area, I'd suggest that.

4) Now the part that may be challenging -- an activity your son enjoys (other than being with his gf). The fact he's neglecting his schoolwork is particularly troubling. Here you (AND your wife) may need some creative thinking. For me, it was HS debate and drama. For our boys, the activity was HS band and summer drum & bugle corps. For others, it's sports. If he'd been in scouting earlier, that may be good but probably too late now. A good, vibrant, contemporary church with a large youth program could be excellent. One friend of ours was losing his daughter until they moved her from public school to Christian school.

 

[JB]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Ladyfish makes an important point that I failed to note:

Just as your son has changed from a child to a man-trainee, you must now change from all-powerful maker of the law to coach and mentor trainee.

The big difference is that you have a choice, he doesn't.

The transition will be harder on you than on him. It comes with the territory.

 

[Phantom_II]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Sadly, there is no real 'instinct' for parenting. We start out as amateurs and hopefully learn from our mistakes along the way. By the time we figure it all out the kids have grown up and gone on their way, shaped for good or ill by what you did and said.

I have been fortunate enough to have been blessed with two kids who, while they had their moments, have matured into healthy, responsible adults.

While I can lay no claims to being the worlds greatest father, or even a particularly good father for that matter, I suspect I did a few things right along the way, consciously or not.

One thing I did do was to remember my youth, the things I did and the reactions of my own parents (my mother said I would make a good case for retroactive abortion), and to consider what made me, as a teenager, feel particularly rebellious or resentful.

Never talk at your kids... Talk to them. Teenagers consider themselves to be adults and severely resent being treated as a child. Think of them more as a misguided contemporary when discussing errant behavior. Not as a friend however. They resent that tack quite vehemently when discipline is the topic.

Never 'threaten' to do something. Either do it, or shut up about it.

Never promise anything if there is the slightest possibility you can't fulfill it.

"Because I said so" is NOT a good reason. Give them the REAL reason.

Don't shelter them from reality. The world is what it is. Allow them to see it and adjust to it. In my opinion, one of the most traumatic experiences in life is when you go out into the world and discover that the clean, safe environment your parents showed you all your life is an utter fabrication. There's some nasty stuff out there. They'll run into it. Prepare them for it.

Any punishments should be handed out quickly. Don't allow a situation to escalate. Kids are always seeking out your limits. Show them early on that you don't have any. Discipline should be handed out while you still have a sense of humor about it. Don't wait till you reach your breaking point. Anger is not a useful tool.

Don't try to force them into your mold. They may or may not like football, drama club, choir, hockey, chess, debating, saxophone or gardening. They may or may not have aspirations to become a doctor, lawyer, bricklayer, or fireman. Don't force them to follow in your footsteps. Allow them to make their own. Encourage them to join you in some activities but don't force it.

Encourage success, but allow them to fail occasionally.

Extend your trust at unexpected times. Go somewhere with your spouse for a day and leave them home unsupervised. Allow them to demonstrate responsibility. If they abuse this trust, let them know how it will affect their freedoms to do other things. Conversely, if they honor the trust, allow them greater freedoms.

DO spend some time as a friend with them. Involve their friends as well. But don't overdo it. You're not really their 'friend' and you both know it, but go through the motions once in a while. During these times, don't think of them as kids either. And don't be afraid to appear silly to them. They know you represent authority, but can appreciate a bit of childlike behavior from 'THE MAN' on occasion.
This does not mean to act irresponsibly, but the sight of an adult with Groucho Glasses goes a long way towards getting your teens to view you with a little less trepidation and can open unsuspected avenues of communication.

Allow them some privacy. Yeah, I spied on my kids and saw some things they should not have done, but don't go ballistic over peccadilloes. You did not see that copy of Penthouse under your son's mattress, and you did not hear that language coming from your daughters mouth when she was not aware of your presence. Some things are normal teen explorations and while they shouldn't be openly encouraged, they should be silently tolerated.

Were you perfect?

I wasn't, and my kids knew this. But I let them know that they were expected to fake it in the presence of adults.

Benjamin Spock didn't know what he was talking about and recanted practically everything he wrote in his first book.

These are my thoughts on the subject. Am I right? I have no idea, but it's what I think worked for me. And now that they've gone out on their own, I can actually be their friend and I'm proud to say that my kids and their respective spouses...

Are

I must have done something right.

 

[yourkiddin]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Thanks for all the wisdom out there. I dont want this to be about being right. I really just want my wife to get on board with me and set these rules out. He has to be prepared 4 real world sitiuations. Split second decisions right or wrong. Learn from the mistakes.At this age none of it is important. I would be the 1st to admitt that I may be some of the problem. The military put me in as a young meek teenager. Ran me,yelled at me and trained me to be able to deal with almost any thing. So I could of tried to teach him the harsh ways. What I say,my way or the highway. Just do it. I have made mistakes in my life.Learned from those mistakes and each day try to better myself. Over all he is a good kid.No serious trouble.Just not wanting to show any interst in school.I want him to know how important it is to have a diploma.

 

[fishmen111]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

I really just want my wife to get on board with me and set these rules out.

Your wife IS on board in her mind and who is to say that she is right or wrong. Believe me when I say support your wife as best as you can and you can get lip and tongue repacement surgery later to replace the ones you bite off. My wife's unconditional love (literally, no conditions) for her son put many a stumbling block in our paths and caused me no end of stress. I finally gave up, realizing that she would not change. Instead, I did. Took four years of pouting and muscle loss from a lack of chest pounding to realize that there is no "right" way for everyone. I could not ask for a better son now. The stress between us that I thought was unseen, was quite visable. On one side, he saw love. The other side, only rules. Which would you pick? Love him and trust him to learn from his mistakes. And always pray.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Tell him "If he wont take your advice He wont be given the chance to take your money" period. My dad said "Make your bed ,you have to sleep on it" Forse him to sign a statement that puts you 100% non accountable for any babys he makes. At his age you can also forse a drug test and have him face the court. His doing not yours.Refuse to pay for cell phone(something tells me he has one right?)

 

[zach103]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

im not a dad so my opinion and info is as much as these other guys..but i grew up idolizing my dad also scared in a way.. my dad was harsh and strict when he needs to be and the nicest person in the world when he needs to be... we always went to the races.. now golfing. but we have alot of the same interests it just took a while to find what we both like.. my brother hates the races so my dad liked going with me.. i think i grew up scared in a way to make him mad, do or say the wrong thing.. your sons going to learn that the girlfriends not going to last . we all have been through it.. hes got to go through that too.. and figure out that your never going to leave him.. try asking him if he wants to go out on the boat.. wants to help you do something around the house.. find out what he likes . they might have changed.. me and my dad only go out like once or twice a month. so dont think you have to do it every workk..... not trying to tell you what to do.. just saying how it happens in my family... good luck.. im behind ya

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: wheres our teens headed?

Home depot has a $14 solution to this problem. Oh yeah, you guessed it, new door locks. Change them and don't give either of them a copy of the key. Then he can do whatever he wants, because he'll be out on his own, and your ex-wife can do whatever she wants because she'll be out on her own, too.

I know, it would never work out quite that well, but seriously, you need to put your foot down. Gauging from the post that started this thread, I think you have a problem with standing up for yourself and not letting people walk all over you. It's not going to be easy to put your foot down... but if you don't do it soon, he'll never amount to much. Every time he misbehaves, take something of his, like his ipod or cell phone or something... if your wife gives it back before you told him he could have it back... break it. If your wife buys him another one before you said he could have it back, break that one too. Eventually they will both get the message.