ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

[Bondo]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

If the large o-ring that goes around where the u joints are was missing as well as the fresh water o-ring was gone, would this somehow cause the oil to leak throgh that bottom hole?

Nope.....

Have you even Read the manual yet,..??

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Yer kidding, right?
If the one in the pics that show the rusty u joints is the 888, you are wasting your time....
The drive that was run without the quad seal & large bell housing ring seal is JUNK.....
I can see the garbage in the bellows in the pic.....
Changing out the gears is not as simple as just throwing them in...
The bearing retainer wrench, the drive & driven gear shimming tools are $150-200 by themselves....
Add to that the cost of the new gears (you won't be able to use the ones out of the 1:65)& the new water pump housing & impeller + a new seal kit & you are well on your way to the cost of a new drive.....
& that's if everything in the 888 drive except the gears is usable....
Not trying to be a bummer here, but I'd hate to see you put 6-700 bux & wind up with something that will not last....
The intermediate shift shaft looks reusable though.....

No I'm not kidding. The joints on the 888 drive are in excellent condition. The joints on the 165 drive are rusted. No bellows were damaged on the 888 drive at all. That drive in in great condition. I pulled the 888 drive off myself. The bellows were prefect. that's not rust on the 888 drive, it's grease. I do agree that the 165's joints are junk though.

I am not about to put 6-7 hundred into the drive! NO way! If that were the case I would toss the freaking thing in the trash. I will get the boat running just fine with the 888 drive.

This is why I origionally wanted to use the 888 drive instead. I am leaning towards using the 888 drive since all I need to do is switch out the drive shaft. I am not concerned with the gearing since this can be corrected with a different prop.

My friend used a V-6 drive on his boat with a 350 engine, a different prop had the rpms perfect & the boat ran great! I am not worried about this part of it.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Nope.....

Have you even Read the manual yet,..??

I went over that manual a couple of times now. I see where it trouble shoots many things, Explains how to tear the thing down & put back together again. I don't see where it talks about gear oil leaks though. I see the power steering leaks section but that doesn't help me. I have adult ADD & OCD. This is quite a task for me to follow all of this stuff. I am better at looking at something & just tearing into it sometimes then I am reading about it. I just would like to know exactly what would cause the oil to leak through the small hole at the bottom, that way I will know whether I should try to repair the cause of the leak or just go with the 888 drive.

Seriously, It's pretty hard for me to follow certain things. I know you guys want me to figure it out on my own but just explaining it to me would go so much easier. Like the large pic if the oil o-ring that Don S posted. It was very simple & easy to understand.

When I work on a car I usally just take it apart & put it back together, except for the torque specs. I always torque things to specs! This goes for engines as well. If I take it apart I can put it back together without a book. However when things have been tossed or installed wrong this creates a problem.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Ok, I took the lower part of the impeller housing out as well & I have some pics. The seals are pretty chewed up & some of the plastic has actually melted a bit. I am guessing this is where the oil leak could have been.

Also when I have the impeller housing completely out should the shaft have any play in it? I can grab it & move it back & forth & up/down a bit.

These are all pics of the 165 drive.

 

[achris]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Yes, the shaft will have movement. The melted water pump housing means a new housing is needed. Once you get it all back together you'll need to do a pressure and vacuum test on it. By the look of the water pump base, I'd be replacing that too.

Chris.........

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Yes, the shaft will have movement. The melted water pump housing means a new housing is needed. Once you get it all back together you'll need to do a pressure and vacuum test on it. By the look of the water pump base, I'd be replacing that too.

Chris.........

Thank you for that info. I will be getting a whole new complete impeller. The top & bottom. That is if I use this 165 drive.

 

[Bondo]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

That is if I use this 165 drive.

Ayuh,....

Like I said Along time ago,.....

The gear ratio on the 888 will Not allow your motor to run properly....
You just Can't buy a prop small enough...

Your Buddy who put a V8 ahead of a drive for a V6, was going the other way...
More power with shorter gears... Props can be found Alot Bigger than the standard pitches,...
You're going to Less power with Taller gears....
You're going to find that props Small enough just aren't made....

I agree with Haut Medoc,... You've got a couple piles of Parts,.... Not a usable Drive....
Sell the Junk you've got,+ save your pennies,...
An SEI drive for $1200. is the Cheapest way for you to go Boating...

 

[Ducatinut]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Ayuh,....

Like I said Along time ago,.....

The gear ratio on the 888 will Not allow your motor to run properly....
You just Can't buy a prop small enough...

Your Buddy who put a V8 ahead of a drive for a V6, was going the other way...
More power with shorter gears... Props can be found Alot Bigger than the standard pitches,...
You're going to Less power with Taller gears....
You're going to find that props Small enough just aren't made....

I agree with Haut Medoc,... You've got a couple piles of Parts,.... Not a usable Drive....
Sell the Junk you've got,+ save your pennies,...
An SEI drive for $1200. is the Cheapest way for you to go Boating...

Truly, Bond-o speaks the truth....

The reality is you will junk something. Running a gearset for a smaller engine will result in a trashed upper unit (this I know from experience) and using a ratio that is too steep will simply beat your engine.

I understand the desire to keep a budget, but using the wrong parts WILL NOT save you money. Go buy the right SEI drive and use it until the boat collapses around its rotten frame or the worn out (or neglected) engine gasps its last combustion cycle.

You'll get most of your money back by ebaying the parts from the boat when you're done and you can move to the next junker...

Just 2 pence from a certified junk yard dog.

BR,

Chris

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

The gear difference is 1.50 vs. 1.65. The horsepower difference is 188 vs. 165. I went into an actually marine parts house today & the tech told me to not worry about the gearing as the prop will correct it. He told me as it is now the RPM's would only be off by a maximum of 400.

Why would you call a complete good drive a pile of junk? I can get $400 bucks easy for that 888 drive right now. There is NOTHING wrong with it. I see that people would rather be negative then to offer any help.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

The gear difference is 1.50 vs. 1.65. The horsepower difference is 188 vs. 165. I went into an actually marine parts house today & the tech told me to not worry about the gearing as the prop will correct it. He told me as it is now the RPM's would only be off by a maximum of 400.

Why would you call a complete good drive a pile of junk? I can get $400 bucks easy for that 888 drive right now. There is NOTHING wrong with it. I see that people would rather be negative then to offer any help.

You are just unhappy with the advice & say it's negative, because it isn't what you want to hear......
Put the drive on, buy a prop that you think works & go boating......
There are 3 places that will cause gear oil to drip out of the lower hole you describe:
1. A bad gear housing oil seal(s)
2. A bad water pump base seal
3. A bad shift shaft seal
Your pump base is shot due to overheating, either it was run without muffs or had some other water delivery/exhaust problem....
You will need to put on a new base & impeller & pressure test it....
Hope this helps.....

 

[ziggy]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

check the driveshaft at where the oil seals ride at too. they can cause wear in the drive shaft...

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

check the driveshaft at where the oil seals ride at too. they can cause wear in the drive shaft...

Yeah, there too.....
I figgered that wear would be obvious with the pump removed, but you are correct, I missed that one....:redface:

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Thank you very much, I do thank you.

 

[achris]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Just be aware that a 165 that is propped too big by about 400 rpm will melt pistons. And that will still happen even if you don't run at wide open.

If the leg you intend using has been overheated due to lack of water, then it's a good bet the water pocket cover in the top box is distorted too... Do a search on that... You may consider the $1200 SEI drive to be good value when you start trying to replace that cover.

I'm not being negative, just letting you know what you could be in for, as are all the other people here.

Chris.......

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Thank you for that advice. I am not going to use the 165 drive at all. I have allready changed the input or drive shaft on the 888. I put the one from the 165 on it since they were different sizes.

The 888 drive has not overheated. It was gone through years ago, winterized & not touched until now. All of those horrible pics were of the 165 drive & parts.

If everything works then all will be good. If the drive falls off or the engine burns up I will simply toss the boat & move on. That's why I'm doing this the way I am. The boat isn't worth putting a new drive on.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Here, this is the 888 drive that I'm using.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

OK, Got the drive on & everything is ready to go. I will be taking her to the lake today for a float test & then to see how the engine & outdrive perform. I will post the results later today!

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

Got her to the lake, put her in the water to check for leaks. There were none. Then we started her & she fired right up. We took the boat out & she ran just fine. First we just cruised around a bit & then we opened the throttle up about 3/4 of the way, Took her to around 35 MPH & trimmed the drive where it needed to be. We got about 38-40 MPH out of her. All of this was with the 888 drive & the 888 prop which is a 17 pitch. The engine was not bogging & no pistons melted. My friend who has many years of boating experience believes that the prop & drive is geared excellent for this boat.

You see, my pile of junk drive along with these horrible gears worked just fine & I am very happy with the performance of the boat. I will say this though, After my first time on a tri-hull I can admit that they do ride rough. I will be using her in the next few weeks & expect to have lots of fun.

To the guys who gave me all of the great advice & help I thank you very much! You guys have been great!

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

I have had this boat out 3 times now. I took her out again today & the lake was smooth like glass. She handled excellent in calm water & is still running great! The drive still works great & that 17 pitch prop is perfect! I opened her up a few times but that was just to test everything out. I will just be cruising around & doing a little fishing here & there. If you are on a budget don't let anyone tell you that your stuff is junk. Find out for yourself before you get discouraged.

 

[turborich]

Re: ready to switch M/C outdrives (need help/advice)

I noticed how when I asked a few questions I was told that all of my stuff was junk, however once I did everything the way i had planed & it all worked great nothing else was ever said. Not really sure why this was?

Anyways, the boat has been running excellent, I have taken it to the lake many times & she has always runs great! Today I sold my old boat for $2,000 bucks. Yep she is gone & the new owner seems to be very happy with her. I will be looking for another boat in the future with a little bit more storage & it will be a V-Hull, The tri-hull was just too much for me in rough waters.

Thanks for the tips & advice! I will be back when I acquire my next boat.