Repower Dilemma

[otterdiver]

The boat is an '83 Farallon Fisherman 25 with twin VP AQ125A's and 280 outdrives. We bought it for a song about 5 years ago and have ran it pretty hard since.

We lost both engines on a tuna run monday. Lost the first one 60nm out... ate an impeller shaft, overheated and popped an exhaust manifold. On pulling that one down it looks like we need a new head as well. Dang aluminum head.

Second engine failed at about 27nm out... tossed a timing belt after either slipping the prop hub or the drive itself. Haven't pulled it down yet to see the total damage.

We're seriously looking at a repower at this point as we really don't want to keep nickel and dimeing these puppies back to life. Parts are getting harder and harder to find and more and more expensive. The dilemma is what to repower with?

We really like the twin engine configuration and plan on sticking with that. I think the choice really comes down to either the volvo 4cyl 3.0 or the 4.3l V6. It looks like we have room for the 4.3's and the power increase would be awesome. We'd be going from roughly 250hp to between 380-450 (carb or MPI) Then there is the question of the drives. Should we keep the 280's or upgrade the complete package?

I'm leaning toward keeping the 280's and dropping in the 4.3's. Guess I need to research a bit on just what we'll need to adapt the newer 4.3 to the 280's?

What would you do? Figure a budget of 15-20k and the ability to do all the work yourself.

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

I'm leaning toward keeping the 280's and dropping in the 4.3's. Guess I need to research a bit on just what we'll need to adapt the newer 4.3 to the 280's?

That is not going to be an inexpensive process. First you have the wrong gear ratios in the 280's and no, changing props won't do it. Then you probably won't find an exhaust Y that will adapt to the 125's transom shield configuration. Then you will need the flywheel cover and flex plate to adapt to that transom shield.

Upgrading the whole package would be the way to go, along with duo prop drives with the 4.3L. But that would be a budget buster big time.
Going new 3.0L Volvo would make that boat feel like a new one, and you would still have a new proven engine. Here is an example, I suppose there are other places, but something to look at.
http://www.dougrussell.com/Products...oductDetails&ProductID=98&Category=6&Brand=47

Here is some more.
http://www.dougrussell.com/Products...s (Carbureted)&SubCatID=5&Brand=47&Category=6

With new packages, you will have to rebuild the transom and cut smaller holes that what the 280's have, and hard to say what you will need for stringers.

And then, how about some MPI prices.
http://www.dougrussell.com/Products...ges (Injected)&SubCatID=6&Brand=47&Category=6

http://www.dougrussell.com/Products/index.cfm?fuseaction=Products&Category=6

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Thanks Don

That's great information... not great news but...

If I went with the twin 4.3l packages I don't see why I'd need the duoprop. Going with just the SX.

Looks like this will be a BIG project no matter which way we go. I suppose I could always look for some 280 transom shields for either the 4.3 or 5.7. That might be an easier route than rebuilding and cutting the transom and having to reconfigure the steering for a new package.

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

The bad thing about the 280's is lack of trim. With more weight with the 4.3's and more speed, you are going to need the drive trim, trust me.

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

The bad thing about the 280's is lack of trim. With more weight with the 4.3's and more speed, you are going to need the drive trim, trust me.

Normally I'd agree with that. On this boat it would really depend on our fuel load. It's an ex commercial lobster boat that has a HUGE (1 ton) fishhold midship. The 200 gal fuel tank is forward of the centerline and with a full tank the boat is more nose heavy than I'd prefer. From what I've seen the 4.3's would add less than 300lb. That's only a it more than our transom mounted bait tank weighs.

This is going to take a fair bit of though I think. I'd rather have the 4.3's but going with complete packages will add about $6k to the project and a bunch of work filling and recutting the transom. I guess a part of that will be made back selling the good parts from the 125's

On the other hand, for the price of two 4.3's I could probably go with a single diesel. This decision is not getting easier LOL.

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Can you say Volvo D4-260 DPH outdrive. I've installed one in a 28'Bayliner Classic. Fully loaded with fuel, water, holding tank, and the inside of the boat full "Stuff" (inflatables, outboards, generators, etc.) and 4 adults, boat did 30+MPH cruise speed (NOT WOT) using 9 GPH. However, that package with props was just under 30K. It also takes up the same amount of room as one 5.7 Chevy, and is scary quiet at full speed.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Theres another option i don't know if you have considered.

Buying a boat with bad stringers or otherwise being sold, with the package you want and transplanting the entire package with the transom to your boat.

One other option, that boat takes the long cruise to the junk yard and you take your 20 grand and buy a 20-25 footer grady white or something with a 5.7 merc or volvo.

All over e-bay boats in your price range and if you wait till the dead of winter even better deals, maybe a fresh water boat.

Seems to me to sink that money in a what a almost 30 year old boat is not the best move.

Good luck!

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Theres another option i don't know if you have considered.

Buying a boat with bad stringers or otherwise being sold, with the package you want and transplanting the entire package with the transom to your boat.

One other option, that boat takes the long cruise to the junk yard and you take your 20 grand and buy a 20-25 footer grady white or something with a 5.7 merc or volvo.

All over e-bay boats in your price range and if you wait till the dead of winter even better deals, maybe a fresh water boat.

Seems to me to sink that money in a what a almost 30 year old boat is not the best move.

Good luck!

I've certainly thought about the first scenario but... rather not go that way but who knows.

As to the second, a GW would be too big a step down LOL. The Farallon is one of the best hulls made for our local conditions. The mold they're using today is identical to what was used for our boat 25 years ago and the bare boat, no engines, is $70k. This is one solid boat! The only real step up from this would be to a non-trailered boat.

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Can you say Volvo D4-260 DPH outdrive. I've installed one in a 28'Bayliner Classic. Fully loaded with fuel, water, holding tank, and the inside of the boat full "Stuff" (inflatables, outboards, generators, etc.) and 4 adults, boat did 30+MPH cruise speed (NOT WOT) using 9 GPH. However, that package with props was just under 30K. It also takes up the same amount of room as one 5.7 Chevy, and is scary quiet at full speed.

Have thought about the diesels quite a bit. I think a couple of the D3-130's would be awesome and my partner would really love to have the diesels. I don't think it's the best choice for us simply because with all the fishing closures and being 2+ hours from the coast the boat sits a fair bit. Once the tuna are gone for the year and rockfish & salmon closed it can be 6 months before we're able to really use the boat again. I really think all that sitting would be way too hard on a diesel.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Repower Dilemma

I really think all that sitting would be way too hard on a diesel.

????

I think Diesels are Easier to mothball...

The fuel itself is Oily,+ keeps darn near Forever, compared to Gasoline...

 

[JustJason]

Re: Repower Dilemma

if a budget is an issue, consider going black with aftermarket alphas.

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Obviously this is a commercial fishing boat? Which means (to me anyway) it gets rode hard and put away wet. Little maintenance, just run it till it pukes. Then call someone the day the fishing season starts and want instant service. At least that is the way every small commercial boat I have ever seen is run, and I have seen a bunch of them. every year. After re-reading your original post, sounds about right.
You don't want any of the new Volvo diesels that are electronic controlled to expensive to fix and requiers some maintenance.
If you are now running twin VP 125's, go with the Merc 3.0L engines with Alpha drives, and do your thing. Less maintenance, and less expence when it does die.

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

It was a commercial boat for a good part of it's early life. We bought it about 5 years ago and use it for sportfishing. We've put on about 300 hours in that time. We're pretty meticulous about maintenance but we're dealing with an old & hard used package. In reality I'm sure we spend a good deal more time tinkering on and maintaining the boat than we actually do using it. Monday was the first day we've had more than a hic-up out of the engines.

We plan on keeping this hull a good long time so we really want to this right.

Thanks for all the advise.

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

We plan on keeping this hull a good long time so we really want to this right.

Just think long and hard. If you like and want to keep the hull, then go for whatever you can afford, But don't go the cheap route and expect the best outcome. It's all a guessing game, just get all the facts and eventually make your decisions.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Repower Dilemma

I read here that volvo came out with a 3.0 150 hp motor with a catalyst converter.

With new volvo out drives.

Or 4.3 mpi merc or volvo with new out drives.

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

What is wrong with rebuilding the engines and drives you have?

The engines and attaching parts are VERY expensive. He also runs way off shore, needs reliability.
From the other replies in this thread, If I was a sport fisherman, I would be putting the fuel tank in the center and a live well up forward. No need for a center fish hold, not going to leagally get that many fish.

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

Seems to me that this set up gave a LOT of years of good service. What is wrong with rebuilding the engines and drives you have? I mean if the boat is horribly underpowered I could see it but I don't know that is the case, is it?

Don's response sumed it up pretty well but for example: About 3 months ago we decided to put in electronic ignitions. In the process discovered we needed to replace a worn distibutor as parts weren't available for it. Finally was able to find a new one for only $1200!!! Did a bunch more searching and finally was able to get hold of a used one with only 300 hours on it for just $300!!! With the recent failures we will be needing a head. I don't even want to search for that one.

The boat's not horribly underpowered as most days here 20 knots is really more than the conditions will allow. However, there is the occasional nice day that having the power would be very nice. I'd also much rather run something at half throttle to get that 20 knots than 90% throttle.

 

[achris]

Re: Repower Dilemma

If the budget can run to it... Why now a GM V8 diesel, like a 6600 Duramax, with a Bravo 3 drive. I've seen some really nice packages on offer here (Australia) so I guess you'd have an even bigger choice where you are. Over 300hp and more torque than a hen's night.

Chris.........

 

[Don S]

Re: Repower Dilemma

IF you do decide to go with new Volvo drives, you can get an adapter plate for the SX-A drives, then you won't have to redo the transom. HOWEVER, they are $800 each, and for 1600 you could get a new transom installed.

 

[otterdiver]

Re: Repower Dilemma

IF you do decide to go with new Volvo drives, you can get an adapter plate for the SX-A drives, then you won't have to redo the transom. HOWEVER, they are $800 each, and for 1600 you could get a new transom installed.

Thanks for that Don. I've seen those plates ... they sure are proud of them! If we have to do the transom I've got plenty of experience working with glass to do the job.

Do you have any idea what it would take to just drop a couple of the new 3.0's in with our existing drives. I assume the exhaust issues would be much less but are we still going to have bellhousing and flexplate issues?