91 toyota pu blues

[ziggy]

hi, i've posted about my poor ol spent toyota pickup before... i swear this is still the same problem too.
it's obviously a 91 toy pu. i believe the 22re 4 cyl. engine. auto. no air, no 4x4, no nothing. just a plain small pu.
this problem has been going on so long i'll see if i can remember the things that've been done.
the symptom is that it acts like it runs on about 1 or 2 cylinders. it stumbles, it idles rough. it's undriveable it runs so poorly.
not as of recently. but some of the past things done in the past to get it to run proper are ignitor replacement. one time. another time was unplugging a fuel injector and plugging it back it. both them times i gave up on the repair. those items were done at the local auto mechanics shop. both times. the regular tune up stuff was replaced also. cap, rotor, plugs, plug wires, pvc valve air cleaner.
this time along with running extremely poorly i have new info though. this time it runs in rev. just fine. put it in drive, 1, 2, or over drive and it runs bad. it's also smelling like fuel. oh, i've also replaced the fuel pump. though not this episode. was the last time i got grieved... this issue i swear is related. the auto shop never has felt like they found the problem. they've also charged me accordingly. the shop is reputable and the techs seem good. it has had them baffled.
lastly, i've pulled code 13 and 14 out of ecu. 13 is no "Ne'' signal to ecu when engine speed is above 1k rpm. 14 is no ''igf'' signal to ecu 6-8 times in succession. i've not figured out what Ne is. i believe igf signal to me confirmation that spark has occurred. the alleged trouble areas are distributor circuit, distributor, ecu. igniter, ign coil circuit, and coil.
i must say i've not done any testing much yet. but have a hard time thinking that these items would operate any different from fwd. to reverse..... like said, rev. the issue goes away....

any ideas? i got till monday to make an attempt before it goes back to the poor guys at the auto shop....

i think i may be handicapped for diagnosis too. i only got a haynes book....

 

[jimr]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

it sounds like you have a bad ground wire to the engine or a loose wiring harness connector. if it runs better in reverse check them and also check for a pinched wire,bare wire.when you put it in reverse it moves the wiring. also check the motor mounts.

 

[DJ]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

What is interesting is that it runs fine in REVERSE. I see it is an automatic trans.

By any chance, is there a vacuum line going to a modulator on the transmission?

If that line is bad, or the diaphragm in the modulator is bad, the engine will have a MAJOR vacuum leak.

Easy enough to check. Just find the line, block it off and see how it runs.

 

[ziggy]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

it sounds like you have a bad ground wire to the engine or a loose wiring harness connector.

i could believe that easy. but where to look? or a short too. to any number of sensors.... i don't know where to look...

By any chance, is there a vacuum line going to a modulator on the transmission?

i do don't see any vacum lines... only thing i see is a neu. safty switch. which does what it's supposed to do.

What is interesting is that it runs fine in REVERSE.

yes. i agree. seems like i should be able to lead myself to the issue via that notion. but not yet.. what changes when shifted to me is the question? especially something that leads towards one of the codes. if that could be answered. perhaps i'd be a step closer...

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Does it make a difference if its in 4x4 or not? One thing i found on my 93 runner with the same engine was the spark plug wires on the cap would come loose. If you pop the plug in the bottom of the tank does water come out? One last thing if you plug the vacuum hose off to the brake booster does the running change. Have you checked your timing chain for excessive play.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Two things I would definitely check. As mentioned, the timing chain seems suspect here. Also, if Toyotas ever have had a common ignition problem, it has been with the ignition coil. Good luck!

 

[DJ]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Don't let the codes throw you.

A sick engine will lead you down many paths chasing codes caused by a sick engine.

I think this is a lot simpler than we want it to be.

1. Vacuum lines.

2. Connections (electrical).

If any of those are suspect, it will throw all kinds of codes. That applies to any electronically controlled engine.

I have seen many a terchnician chase his tail going after codes when it turned out to be something simple.

Think BASICS!

 

[xtraham]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

I'm not saying this is your problem, but the most common problem with the Toyota trucks was the distributor, and the ecu.. more commonly the ecu especially in a hot climate, if it has the Mitsubishi ecu I can almost guarantee it needs replacing if it has never been replaced,

 

[dolluper]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Yep you have a trannie control solenoid looks like a condensor...two wires red and black ground<<< [CHECK}>>>> vaccum hose....also check two black wires with ring connectors on the Control module.....check for burning on the black and white wires on the pick-up coil......then maybe report back

 

[ziggy]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

well, i'm not doing to good at being a auto mechanic....
i've found one loose ground. it ran better after that but still not right.
i've looked at many vac. line and connections, all look good.
i've looked at many wires none seem to be short.
i've checked my new plug wires and the ohm good. though i'll agree with puddle jumper, i've had problems with the plug wires coming off the cap also.
i've checked the coil, it ohms good to
i've checked the pickup coil. it ohms good.
i've looked at the new cap and rotor and see no cracks or carbon tracking

put it back together and now it runs worse than it did. it's been cold here. so i'm fighting that. fingers and feet get to cold to continue... don't know why it runs worse now.. probably a plug wire would be my guess, or i mixed them up. might go out and check that later after my feet warm up a bit...

it's not a mitsibusi ecu

i see the condesor looking thing on the transmission. the wires are in a lum so can't see them. they aren't shorted to ground. but w/o seeing them, can't be sure they've not shorted together...

now that i've got it running worse than it was, it runs consistently poor in R or D or park.... musta not got something back right when i was testing... surely i will be able to go find that... after my feet warm up... oh, i said that...

well, that's where i'm at now.... still trying and thinking...

 

[dolluper]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

What ground did you fix ???? on what eh?...can you pull the codes again?....same codes or different now would be nice to know .....makes dinose easier

 

[wormbait]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

have you check the firing order. if that is off it will run worse

 

[xtraham]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

I just remembered, there's a condenser looking thing on or in the distributor that will cause those engines to do that, it is frequently overlooked by mechanics you can't test it, but it's only like a 6 dollar part.

 

[ziggy]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

well, no good news. just wanted to say i appreciate all the input....
i've not been to good about going out and dealing with it... been kinda cold here and the older i get, the less i like working in the cold....whatever...
anyways. as far as i've got is.
the ground that was loose was just a extra, i assume factory extra ground strap to the body from the block.
i have gone back and messed with it because i can't believe that what i did to it would make it run worse.... only thing i did that seemed to have ramifications was to wiggle the #2 injector wire.. i can't not wiggle the wire and make it malfunction. so not convinced that's it. though that's the one i believe i touched prior to it seeming to run much better after the wiggle. i've wiggled many other connections too. along with unplugging and plugging them back together again. the plug wires are on correctly at least as far as firing order is concerned.. i've looked hard at every wire and vacuum hose i can see or get my hands on. it's going to the shop tomorrow.... not like i have the bread to do that, but the boy needs a ride....
i'll follow up with whats found by real techs...

my egos been hurt now.....
probably not the end of the world though...... woulda made me feel better if i coulda found it though... not finding it makes me not feel like a shade tree mech in the least....

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Have you tried starting it at night (in the dark) and checking for arcing?? It's something that really shows up in the dark...................the darker the better.

 

[mlukich]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

I agree with LT... I had a Dodge Dakota that would run like crap (sometimes) and it was a coil wire arcing to the block... Only found it cause I popped the hood when it was almost dark and saw the spark... Good luck...

 

[ziggy]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Have you tried starting it at night (in the dark) and checking for arcing??

yep, tried that too.... all was dark. no light show....

side note..... me and my boy took it down to the auto repair store last night.... it went under it's own power.... only thing the boy said was it felt a little lacking in power.... but the engine he said ran smooth enough... granted he may or may not know when it's acting up..... but it certainly didn't act like it was running on 2 cyl.s or less like it had been prior to me getting it back from him. it was not drivable at that point..... that's gonna bum me out if my auto mech tells me there's nothing wrong..... i guessing i have a intermittent problem.... like a wire that is sometimes shorting, sometimes not. a ground wire that makes it sometimes, sometimes don't. depends on how it vibrates.... maybe a cold solder on the ecu board that is vibration sensitive... i don't know.....

 

[ziggy]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

well, after a week at the auto shop. they give it back to me with a $35 bill. which i'm not complaining about. the results were....... it runs right.
yep, just like when the boy drove it down to the shop. after two weeks of couldn't move it a block because it ran so poorly. the diagnosis is, there's nothing to fix. guess ya can't argue about that when it don't seem broke.
just amazing how that all works. broke for two weeks, take it in for service and it runs proper. just amazing...
with the cold snap, yesterday i got to replace the batt. in it. figures...
so now i'm just waiting for the day that it fails again... it's now not trust worthy transportation... i swear this problem has been addressed by me and my mechanic at least two times. maybe three.... ea. time, in the end it miraculously fixes itself...
my only clue is that i think i wiggled wires on a fuel injector and it started running. problem is i move a few other wires too. the mech. at one point sent me on my way by disconnecting a injector wire and plugging it back in. sent me on my way w/o much of a bill that time too as he didn't feel that was what was causing it to run as poorly as it does... so i wait....

for a your enjoyment... a pic of the truck in question..

a 91 toyota pick, 2 wheel drive, auto, 22re four cyl. fuel injected, no air, bench seat. no electric anything. it does have a heater.... and a custom duct taped in headlight though....

 

[dolluper]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

Looks like you should be checking some of your grounds or wires......like lights or others things around some of those beauty marks...LOL's slam bang thank you man
edit.....err adding some grounds .......a picture is better than a thousand words GO FIGURE the cats out of the bag.......used on Sundays only by little oJB lady but no pictures offers

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: 91 toyota pu blues

well, after a week at the auto shop. they give it back to me with a $35 bill. which i'm not complaining about. the results were....... it runs right.
yep, just like when the boy drove it down to the shop. after two weeks of couldn't move it a block because it ran so poorly. the diagnosis is, there's nothing to fix. guess ya can't argue about that when it don't seem broke.
just amazing how that all works. broke for two weeks, take it in for service and it runs proper. just amazing...
with the cold snap, yesterday i got to replace the batt. in it. figures...
so now i'm just waiting for the day that it fails again... it's now not trust worthy transportation... i swear this problem has been addressed by me and my mechanic at least two times. maybe three.... ea. time, in the end it miraculously fixes itself...
my only clue is that i think i wiggled wires on a fuel injector and it started running. problem is i move a few other wires too. the mech. at one point sent me on my way by disconnecting a injector wire and plugging it back in. sent me on my way w/o much of a bill that time too as he didn't feel that was what was causing it to run as poorly as it does... so i wait....

for a your enjoyment... a pic of the truck in question..

a 91 toyota pick, 2 wheel drive, auto, 22re four cyl. fuel injected, no air, bench seat. no electric anything. it does have a heater.... and a custom duct taped in headlight though....

...forget the Toyota (although I love 'em), who owns that '69 half ton chevy in the background? Is it a nice dry, rustfree Nebraska truck?
BP