Is it safe to run after seizing?

[ebry710]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

I am at a loss.

A broken ring does a lot of damage.

Running without oil in the gas does a lot lot or damage.

Boring one cylinder and not up-sizing the piston.....or up-sizing one piston and not boring and up-sizing the others.

Can this be right?

 

[GlasV162]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

The carbs were rebuilt, at my request, at the same time as the powerhead. After it seized, I continued to run it, as they advised. Performance has gotten worse over time--the limited time I've used it. It starts hard after warming up, idles poorly, and smokes excessively. Once I get it going, high speed is still pretty good.

And no, they didn't give me back the VRO pump.

 

[ebry710]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

I call what you got "a discount rebuild" and what you are operating is an engine "ready to be rebuilt".

Scratches in the cylinder walls (if they are there) allow for blow-by causing the hot gas to go to the fuel mixing area of the of the engine. You can have great carbs but the blow-by is going to mess up the mixture and the fuel flow.

When the mechanic tells you to run an engine it is to seat the rings and not repair the cylinder walls. Metal shavings should never to enter piston area.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

I think the bottom line is that the damage is done, and no matter what, that engine needs to be opened up and checked for damage.

It will most likely need to be rebuilt properly, if it's even still salvageable, depending on the extent of damage found.

Everything will have to be rechecked, including the carbs.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

The carbs were rebuilt, at my request, at the same time as the powerhead.

That's all fine and well, but it still doesn't answer the question of carburetor condition of an engine that was only run for about 10 hours over a period of a year, to a year and a half or more. Running an outboard motor that little is usually not a good thing, unless specific actions have been taken to prevent the carbs from gumming up.

Your motor may have siezed because it wasn't rebuilt properly, but you could also have caused your own problem.

On the matter of the VRO pump, I think I would try to get some sort of a statement from them as to why they removed it and why they repaced it with a standard fuel pump.

 

[Mike2076]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

Hello, jay is right a 2 stoke outboard cant sit.it is built to run no matter if you stabil it,and alot of times it takes me several days even if my boat has set just a few months to go through all the systems water,charge,carbs,ect.any prob.i can fix in my shop.Its hard to get out and walk if it dont run! Anyway i can help let me know.

 

[GlasV162]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

Mike2076--

Do you know of any official publication / manual that states that it is not advisable to coninute running a motor after it has seized? I'd like to have something if I'm going to take the shop to court.

It seized up after less than 10 hrs. of use, after the "rebuild"--keep in mind the carbs were rebuilt at the same time.

I have also taken the motor to a second shop where they have an OMC-trained technician. He showed me why he believes the cylinder locked-up. The "deflector hoses" weren't replaced. He told me that these hoses direct water around each cylinder to ensure proper cooling, and the hose / hoses around the bottom starboard cylinder were deformed, blocking water flow, which he believes to be the cause for the lock-up.

He also verified that only 1 of the cylinders was bored, and the other 3 were honed.
In addition, he told me the recirculation fuel lines were hooked up incorrectly, causing the heavy smoke--he also said the motor was FULL of oil when he took it apart.

As ebry710 says, they did a "discount rebuild." I paid over $1800.00 in good faith that a quality, thorough job would be done. Instead, I got a motor that seized after less than 10 hours, and a shop that says, "Keep running it--it will smooth itself out."

 

[iwombat]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

Regardless of what else happens, you should also be demanding your old VRO back. They took out a perfectly good $300+ part and replaced it with a $50 part - for no reason. A faulty VRO will never effect only one cylinder. Any competent mechanic would know that. More fodder for your lawyer.

 

[GlasV162]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

Funny you should mention the $$ for the VRO. I included that in the amount demanded as a refund--I had my attorney send a demand letter. The shop responded to the demand letter, asking for copies of work orders that correspond to the times I returned the motor to the shop after the "rebuild."
They never charged me additional $$, but they said there were minor adjustments made. On one return, they said they replaced a roller that was out-of-round but never charged me.
Without work orders for each time I returned the boat, it may be a tough case to win, but I kept notes of the entire process, documenting who I spoke to, when I returned the boat, when I picked it up etc. I also have an email from the shop owner, in which he admits they hooked up the recirculation fuel lines incorrectly, but that it could've been corrected in about 1 to 2 hours. I brought the boat back to him 5 times, so he had plenty of opportunity to correct that, but didn't.

 

[HybridMX6]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

So, since it appears you have had someone pull the heads off, how bad do the cylinders look, especially the one that seized?
Bottom line is they never found the reason the motor needed to be rebuilt anyways, they just rebuilt it and gave it back to you.
Regardless of who's to blame, it was a poor repair since they didn't locate the original root of the problem, then gave very poor advice to keep running it after it had seized. As iwombat said, the VRO can not pick on only 1 cylinder, if it goes out, all 4 would be toast, not just one. It does sound like they were trying to cover up their cheap rebuild job, and were possibly hoping you would throw a rod though the block so they could blame you and not have to foot the bill to fix it the right way.
I feel this would be a very hard case for you to win, since it's been 2 years since they did the job, and only 10 hours on the motor or so. Due to the amount of time it has been, they can blame you for the motor seizing and say you must have had bad gas in it. Your best bet would be to have that new shop's OMC tech give some sort of statement in writing as to the current condition of the engine, and why it seized up, and also what he found that was done incorrectly or not done at all (as the case of the deflector tubes).

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

I don't think its a hard case at all - he has a competent and OMC trained mechanic who has identified the exact reason why the motor failed. The amount of money involved also makes this an easy case to take to small claims court. That's about a hundred dollar filing fee and 20 minutes in front of the judge.

BTW, GlasV162 - you don't need a publication in regard to continued running of the motor. You have all the expertise that you need in the OMC certified mechanic.

Small claims courts usually have a limit of about $3,000 - $4,000. Go for refund on the original bill, attorney fees, court cost, other costs (expert witness/the OMC mech) and damages. That should run the bill up to the max that the court will hear, and you should be made pretty much whole again.

Once you win and the description of the shoddy work is detailed in a court case, let everyone know about who these guys are.

 

[GlasV162]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

There certainly are differing opinions on how this case will go should it get that far. I've also been told that this case won't go any further than mediation before I'm made whole. Thanks again for the help.

 

[HybridMX6]

Re: Is it safe to run after seizing?

Hopefully it all goes well for you. Let us know whenever it is that it all gets worked out. That OMC cert tech is your best friend right now, LoL.