Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Help. I have had this engine fitted for 2 years and spent a lot of time and money to get it fixed, but it still wont rev past 2500rpm under load, I have tried to get help from Cummins Uk with no result, no one seems to know anything about it nor care, since the engine was fitted it has had a brand new loom & harness, new sensors all round, new #1 injector, re-built turbo. new wastegate, new ecm the list goes on, but it still wont go past 2500 rpm, it is fitted in a 1991 Bayliner 2556 command bridge with a brand new Bravo diesel X, and has had a new stainless steel fuel tank made, I have had the engine read with the diagnostics tool on several occasions and no faults are present, and no warning light has come on (brand new dash and gauges), I am running out of ideas, patients and money, can anyone Help????
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

What is it's rated RPM? What horsepower rating? Is the tach good? What about the propeller pitch? Sounds like it has never ran past 2500 RPM. True? What RPM will it reach with no load? Yes, I know we don't like to do this with gasoline engines, but this is absolutely OK with any governed diesel, which is all of them. Do you know what the high idle, no load is supposed to be? What's the actual fuel rate at 2500 compared to the max fuel rate from the spec sheet at that RPM? If it is close then I would suspect she is over wheeled.

To go at this blind will require all of the data you can assemble. Let's say the max fuel rate factory spec is 17.3 GPH at 2500 RPM and you're using 16.9 on the water, then I'd say you just ran out of horsepower and there is nothing wrong with the engine. Make sense?

Do you know that the linkage is getting full governor control lever travel? Electronic throttle? What is percent throttle on screen?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

OK, if it is the 250 (crank) 225 propshaft, then high idle is probably around 3820 RPM. If you mash the throttle in neutral will it get there? How fast is she pushing the boat at 2500 RPM? What gear ratio? What prop pitch? All of this will help.
 

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

hi thanks for your reply, bellow is some info I have just emailed to Cummins uk, yes they finally got back to me, but were not familliar with the fuel system as the mew CMD engines use common rail

Hi Alan,
further to our conversation


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had this engine fitted for 2 years and spent a lot of time and money to get it fixed, but it still wont rev past 2500rpm under load, no one seems to know anything about it , since the engine was fitted it has had a brand new loom & harness, new sensors all round (except fuel shut off solinoid for limp mode), new #1 injector, re-built turbo (as the turbo bearings had failed and veins were scraping the housing). new wastegate valve (as the old one had seized and badly corroded) , new ecm the (engine was bare engine which had sat at Barrus for a couple of years) Bosch part number0 281 014 229, but it still wont go past 2500 rpm, it is fitted in a 1991 Bayliner 2556 command bridge (gross weight with fuel & water 4.2 ton) 9'6" Beam,with a brand new Bravo diesel X 2.1 ratio, origionaly fitted with 22" props, re-fitted with 20"props and no change at all, and has had a new stainless steel fuel tank made (no contamination), I have had the engine read with the diagnostics tool on several occasions and no faults are present (Rinda), and no warning light has come on (brand new dash and gauges), after I reconditioned the turbo, the top speed increased from 7mph to 9.8mph, with the Rinder attached and under load the engine runs fine upto 2500 rpm and throttle position sensor is showing correct position upto that point but as soon as it reaches 2500 rpm the engine wont increase bot this throttle position sensor continues upto 100% in line with the throttle position, engine idles at between 600 and 800 rpm, flywheel rpm is same as tacho, no problem there, when I disconected both feed and return (fuel lines are diesel suction fuel lines wo they wont colapse,with internal diameter of about 10mm) from the fuel tank and run the engine from a 5 gallon drum (at same height as the engine and at 1 metre distance from lift pump) at 1000 rpm in neutral fuel return was about 1 litre every 2 mins, when at 2500rpm return was less than this, when in drydock (with water attached) engine will run both in neutral and gear throughout the engine range with no problem, the engine dosn't apear to be strugling at all, but apears to be running in limp mode as far as fuel is concearned, could you confirm if 2 diferent types of fuel shut off solidoids 803623 were manufactured as I have been informed that one engages with a + feed and one engages with a negative, also do you know of any failiures conected with this solinoid, and any failiures conected with the lift pump including symptoms I am running out of ideas, patients and money, can you help?


flywheel rated at 300hp WOT around 3800rpm, it has the smallest props avilable fitted, since found that the previous owner couldn't get engine to run right either, the engine was manufactured in 2002, and was first used by Barrus Uk (main importer) in a large rib for show purposes, the engine was the sold and returned to Barrus where it sat for a few years , at which time it had parts taken from it which explains wht it was supplied to me through a mercruiser dealer with all new parts!
please help if you can
 

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

sorry missed this one,

I have no data for fuel consumption as the engine has only 7 hours on the clock since it was fitted over 2 years ago, and this time was run up for fault finding only, dificult to test as the marina is tidal and only access it one hour either side of high water (bummer) so when lock gates are open I have enough time to get out and straight back in, with not enough time to try somthing else and get out and back in before the gates close.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

The most significant thing I can pick from your notes is that the RPM did not "change at all" when you went to the 20" prop from 22". This does sound like limp home, or some other electronically induced RPM limit.

I would definitely expect that the return fuel qty would be reduced by any change in load or speed as you noted, but does not seem to be significant data at this point. Considering that there have been lots of parts swapped between everything I am sorry to say you are in a bad place.

I also don't believe the Rinda can give you everything you need. I'd like to see a Cummins guy on this thing with the proper full level Cummins service tool. My background is Caterpillar but I do know a few Cummins guys, evil as they are, (that was a joke) maybe I could get one of them to respond, but I am not very hopeful as they will be truck type dudes . . .
 

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

the cummins guy is looking into it, but as he is not over familiar with the engine he can't promise anything, that being said, he stated he will contact other engineers to consult, I am going to the boat in the morning (9am UK time and after will sea test it) and I will be replacing the lifter pump if needed and looking in detail at the fuel shut off valve controlled by the ecm/ecu (disconecting/ removing its capabilities to see if it has any baring on the issue) I will keep you posted

Thank you for your concearns it is much appreciated
 

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

Thanks for the manual, it is similar to the one I purchased, but this one seems to be more comprehensive, cheers

went to the boat today to change the lift pump, replaced it with the new one but was unable to test engine as we curently have a 40mph crosswind, did try though, but wind picked up the front end and blew us around, not enjoyable at all, upon closer inspection of the old pump and after stripping it I found it had an internal filter in the lift pump body, which apeared to be clogged, perhaps that was the problem? it would explain a lot as a 20% reduction in fuel would cause the engine to not get above 2500 it would also stop the boat getting on the plain,
if anyone has any other ideas I would be very greatful, also as soon as the weather improves and I get the boat out I will post my findings.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

Fuel restriction could easily cause a reduction in power, but not a fixed 2500 RPM operation unless low fuel pressure initiates a 2500 RPM "limp home" setting. If it ran 2300 RPM with the 22" and then 2500 RPM with the 20", then I could support your 20% type scenario, but not if the RPM is a truly static 2500 . . . ;)
 

Wandalen

Cadet
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
9
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

A diesel engine is sensitive to air in the system, guess you might bleed it for air already. But to be sure you can take a 1 gallon bottle of clear plastic, put it on the fuel side of your engine. Take a short hose that goes to the tank and put it into the bottle together with the retour hose. Now you can be sure its nothing wrong with the diesel from the new tank. Bleed the the system from air shown in the manual, its a nut in the middle of the injector pump. Do only uncrew it 2 turns. And only keep it open while you are pumping on the top of your filter holder. Now the fuel system is bleeded from air and the tank/hose part is locked out from the system you can be sure the error is another place.

I also heard if the sensor in the gearlube box is failing your engine will not past 2000rpm for safety. But you would probably getting a warning light for this.
....and did you try the test switch on the controlpanel? switch egnition to on push switch to test for ca 5 sec. look for blinking lights on the panel (error codes)

Sorry for the bad English :rolleyes:

~S~
Wandalen
 

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

just got back after taking the boat out after fitting the lift pump, again, no change, one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that the battery light remains on all the time, I have dissmissed this until now as the volt meter was reading ok and the battery was charging fine, could it be a faulty alternator? or even wired up wrong?? after looking in the manual again it states if voltage drops below 9v the injectors stay in limp mode without any error codes, has anyone had a problem with alternator wiring/fault?
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

Alternators fail all the time on boats. Pull it off and get it tested or test it right there on the engine. You have the manual with the procedures.
 

Wandalen

Cadet
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
9
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

looking in the manual again it states if voltage drops below 9v the injectors stay in limp mode without any error codes, has anyone had a problem with alternator wiring/fault?

I heard the same thing, but that should be seen with the Mercruiser tool you can connect to the engine.Think its under section ECM voltage. Is your fuse in the hvite box in order?
 

wetspot

Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

I heard the same thing, but that should be seen with the Mercruiser tool you can connect to the engine.Think its under section ECM voltage. Is your fuse in the hvite box in order?

I wasnt aware that the Rinda tool could read this, so I have emailed Rinda and asked the for a full diagnostics flow chart, so far cummins mercruiser have failed to shed any light as they are not farmilliar with the engine, (seems pretty pathetic as the are supposed the experts) The UK CMD service team keep trying to pass me onto the local Mercruiser dealer (who is not farmiliar with the engine)

as for the alternator, I will try the diagnostics as explained in the manual, but I have just pulled a muscle in my back, so it wont be for a while
 

Wandalen

Cadet
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
9
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

I am using this > http://www.rinda.com/marine/mtspec.htm Reading errors, fuel flow, turbo pressure, air tamreture , ECM volt etc etc easy to use. My Injector censor is failing from time to time so i must get a new one. Do you know where i can get this cheap? think its half the price if i just go out side the Norwegian borders.
Good luck with your back m8!
 

fourd

Recruit
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
3
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

I am using this > http://www.rinda.com/marine/mtspec.htm Reading errors, fuel flow, turbo pressure, air tamreture , ECM volt etc etc easy to use. My Injector censor is failing from time to time so i must get a new one. Do you know where i can get this cheap? think its half the price if i just go out side the Norwegian borders.
Good luck with your back m8!

Before changing the no. 1 nozzle have a look at the Turbo , remove the air cleaner and cheke if the Turbo is jamed , as for the nozzle I can give you a quote.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

I think we need to be careful about looking for non-ECM type issues like air in the fuel and "jammed" Turbos etc. If this is truly a FIXED RPM, exactly the same, all the time, then it sounds commanded to me. Not a result of some sort of mechanical issue or failure of a part that is not system monitored . . . ;) (see post #10)

Also, let's keep this thread on westpot's problem or we're going to get really confused.
 

Wandalen

Cadet
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
9
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

Before changing the no. 1 nozzle have a look at the Turbo , remove the air cleaner and cheke if the Turbo is jamed , as for the nozzle I can give you a quote.

I got the reading error code P-1201 and its the Injector nr1 sensor. But i think i got it fixed :rolleyes:

The Injector nr1 is expensive here in Norway Ca 600-700? :eek:
In the UK i think its aroung 350-400? Half the price
Everything in Norway they put the name boat infront of you must add up the price 3x
 

Wandalen

Cadet
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
9
Re: Help, Mercruiser 4.2L D-Tronic wont rev past 2500rpm

I think we need to be careful about looking for non-ECM type issues like air in the fuel and "jammed" Turbos etc. If this is truly a FIXED RPM, exactly the same, all the time, then it sounds commanded to me. Not a result of some sort of mechanical issue or failure of a part that is not system monitored . . . ;) (see post #10)

Also, let's keep this thread on westpot's problem or we're going to get really confused.


Agree ! think westpot is on the trail with the low power indicator light.
 
Top