I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

fabrimacator21

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 28, 2009
Messages
286
Re: I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

That's more realistic, but I Would ask the cam gods in here their opinion. Myself personally, I suspect it might be necessary to run exhaust manifold risers with a cam like that.

Have you read the installation notes? Machine work to the head, a bunch of new valve-train parts, sounds like a lot of work/money for not much gain.

[7] Stock springs cannot be used.
[2] Requires machining on cylinder heads.
[52] Engines with self-aligning rocker arms must use part #1417-16 or 1317-16.



Have you ever considered getting a used vortec 5700 out of a truck and bolting all you're stuff up to that and dropping it in?

:confused: that is the cam I've been talking about running and the one I used with the dyno software.

I believe I have exhaust manifold risers but I'm not sure... they do go up and then back down if thats what you mean.

Is this a riser? http://images.google.com/imgres?img...305+exhuast+manifold&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&um=1

Part # 9863 is what I have.

Yeah I saw that too but with the heads that I'm buying I suspect it'll be ok... I will definetly look into it though.;)
 

fabrimacator21

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 28, 2009
Messages
286
Re: I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

Ayuh,... I'd rate that at the Ragged Edge of reasonable for a boat......

Why is this?

Bare with me here guys:redface:... I have alot to learn about marine engines. Not sure how all the exhaust, circulating system, etc works.

I appreciate the feedback.
 

Howard Sterndrive

Rear Admiral
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Nov 5, 2008
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4,603
Re: I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

If your building from new.... then yes... but if your modifying the already existing 305 then no.
I don't see why

a used 305 long block is worth about $200 in my area if it compression tests well.

A 350 goes for about $350-$500 depending on what heads are on it.

I'd start with a 350.

305's are good for fuel economy but not the best choice for building beyond the 230HP 4 barrel.
 

mylesm260

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
444
Re: I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

Well, you came to the right place.

First of all, when you start talking HP in a boat, most people are talking prop HP, your existing motor is most likely rated in prop HP. So if you're going to compare you're dyno software numbers to boat's you have to subtract for friction losses of the drive (I think like 5-8% or something in that nature).

Regarding exhaust:

Yes, it will actually suck water in the exhaust valve and hydro lock you're motor.

Without getting too much into it.

Intake duration: How long you're intake valve is open (degrees)
Exhaust duration: How long you're exhaust valve is open (degrees)
Over-lap: How long both you're intake and exhaust valves are open

Strokes:

Compression: Both valves closed, piston moving up
Power: Both Valves closed, piston moving down
Exhaust: Exhaust valve open, piston moving up
Intake: Intake valve open, piston moving down

We all know this, but, here is something to think about.

At high RPMS, high duration and over-lap is good, it means the valves are open longer, which means more net time for the gasses to flow in and out of the combustion chamber

BUT (and this is a huge but)

High duration and overlap at lower RPMS is BAD, It reduces volumetric efficiency (Torque) and in fact it creates vacuum pulses through the exhaust which WILL suck water into the engine.

On a marine grade cam, the piston goes up on exhaust, and the valve closes just as the piston reaches TDC. Then the piston changes direction, and the intake valve opens, and draws in the fuel/air.

On a Hotter cam, the piston goes up on exhaust, but the exhaust valve stays open, even after the piston reaches TDC and starts to turn around. in fact BOTH valves are open (overlap) for a period of time. So as the piston goes down, it creates a vacuum. If you're exhaust valve is still open when this vacuum is created, the vacuum "pulse" will travel through you're entire exhaust system.


See. At high rpms, you're port velocities are higher, the fast moving gases suck the rest of the exhaust out of the combustion chamber, that's why hotter cams make more power.

But at lower RPMS, you're port velocity's are much much lower, the sucking and inertia effects just aren't there.


Now, I know my cam theory, but I don't have nearly as much experience as a lot of the guys in this forum. Bond-o has over 22,000 posts, I'm sure he knows a thing or two about cams. When he mentioned dry pipes, he was inferring that the cam you picked runs the risk of sucking up water, and to be safe, you might need to run dry exhaust. (it's an oxy-moron, dry exhaust is really dangerous, unless you leave you're motor un-covered like a jet boat)


So, think of it this way:

Stock marine cams are already pretty close to the limit of what they can run for duration and over-lap, there really is no wiggle room there.

There are a FEW hotter cams out there that may work, but you're always increasing the risk of water ingestion, which can kill a motor pretty quick.
 

fabrimacator21

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
286
Re: I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

Gotcha... great explanation.

I'll have to look into the rating on my motor.... I have a feeling thats flywheel hp though. I haven't had a chance to look up the casting # on the heads but I don't think they're anything special. Need to find the compression ratio and cam specs also.

Will the risers stop water inhalation?

What would the max exhaust duration be for that motor (1978 omc/chevy 305) with exhaust manifold risers?
 

mylesm260

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
444
Re: I/O Swap... Omc 800 to alpha 1.

Risers are stock on all IB/OB setups

What you're referring to is riser extensions, going above and beyond the stock system to stop water from getting into the manifolds.

They're usually used for situations where a motor is too low in the water-line, and has trouble with water ingestion, but they can also help make-up for a hotter cam (at least I think they can)

And it's not like it eliminates the problem all together and you can run the hottest cam you can get you're hands on, it just helps minimize the risk a little bit.

Even with riser extensions, running a hot cam is a bad idea in a boat, you're still running a higher risk of ingestion.
 
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