Would you still buy a Four Winns?

[zak_lck]

Hello:

I am a first time boat buyer and I am looking for help. I was 100% sure that I wanted my first boat to be a Four Winns. I recently found out that Four Winns parent compnay Genmar has filed for bankruptcy. I am now second guessing my decision that I will be making tomorrow. My questions and concerns are how would the warranty be handled? It is a scary proposition spending 40K+ thinking you may not have a warranty, depending on how everything shakes out.

I have been teetering between the Four Winns, and a Bryant 233. I am literally going to be making a decision tomorrow.

PLEASE HELP!

thank you

 

[lowkee]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

If the Four winns Co is really going away forever. I would expect the price of a (normally warranted) boat to be reduced accordingly. At least a thousand or so. People buy new for the guarantee, and without it, what's the point?

 

[superpop]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Never heard of Bryant but I would be leary about purchasing a new boat from a company that is going through bankruptcy. You never know what is going to happen, and I would not listen to anything the dealer says regarding coverage of the warranty or how they will stand behind it. The warranty is a pretty big deal and one of the main reasons for buying new. If the hull is going to fail or have structural problems you typically find this out within the first year or two. After that the condition of the boat depends on how well it was cared for. Not to throw a wrench in your decision but have you looked at Chaparral. I just purchased one and a big part of the decision was the stability of the company. They seem to be the most stable builder out there right now. Build quality is as good if not better then Four Winn's and they are priced about the same.

 

[dorelse]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Genmar is using the bankruptcy filing to restructure their debt, they'll be around for a long time.

Now...I suppose Genmar as part of their plan to emerge from bankruptcy could be to eliminate certain brands...the have a lot of them. Glastron, Larson, Four Winns, Wellcraft...all totalled 15 boat brands.

I doubt that the Glastron brand will go anywhere, you'll just need to decide if you think that Genmar will a) eliminate brands and b) if Four Winns would make the cut IF they did that.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Read some of the news reports about Genmar. They (Genmar themselves) petitioned the court to allow them to pay warranty claims so that they can maintain loyalty with customers and dealers. That actually speaks pretty well to the fact that Genmar plans to stick around for a long time.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/498336-bankruptcy-court-approves-genmar-warranty-request

Whether or not any brands are eliminated is hard to say at this point. There have been hints that there will be some consolidation. Regardless, what parts require the most warranty attention anyways? Typically the warranty items are not brand specific. Engines/drives I would say are the most important things to have coverage on. The hull is obviously important as well. However, it is much much more rare that a hull has any significant issues as compared to an enigne/drive.

I would say that if you can get a good price on a Four Winns go for it. They are great boats and they have been one of the stronger companies out there for many years.

 

[jacknbella]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Just like GM, Genmar will still be around for many years, and so will their warranty's. They may cut a few brands, however, it's highly unlikely Four Winns will be one of them. The only thing I would look-out for is FW's trailers. Mine is junk but my boat is incredible. Go to www.ifourwinns.com for more info.

P.S. You never said which Four Winns you are interested in? H240? etc.??? Which powerplant too?

 

[zak_lck]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

All:

thank you for your feedback and information. I am going to paste the description of the boat below. It is a H220 LOADED. MSRP 67K, dealer selling for 44K. I offered 40K, price to include dealer adding thru hull exhaust. When dealer adds thru hull, is it captain's call, or straight thru hull? Here is info;

WOW!!! This boat has more options than any 22 ft boat we have ever stocked! If you are looking for a boat that can take the family wakeboarding and not break the bank, this is the one! Features and options include fiberglass stringers and floor, snap-in carpet, Sony CD/MP3/Sirius stereo w/ amp & sub, depth finder, hour meter, bimini top, bow fill-in cushion, cockpit & bow cover, docking lights, dual batteries, transom stereo remote, electric engine hatch lift, swim platform mat, stainless steel arch w/ ski tow, arch wakeboard racks, arch speakers, transom trim switch, trailering cover, under swim platform lighting, transom speakers, cockpit table and a custom matched Four Winns trailer w/ aluminum wheel upgrades and spare tire. It is powered by a Volvo 5.7GXi 320HP. I don't know what else you could want!

 

[zak_lck]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Just like GM, Genmar will still be around for many years, and so will their warranty's. They may cut a few brands, however, it's highly unlikely Four Winns will be one of them. The only thing I would look-out for is FW's trailers. Mine is junk but my boat is incredible. Go to www.ifourwinns.com for more info.

P.S. You never said which Four Winns you are interested in? H240? etc.??? Which powerplant too?

PLEASE read the following I just found on this forum....should I be concerned?

Stay away from Four Winns and Volvo Engines. I bought a new 2008 Horizon 180 and every other time I use it, something breaks. Radio, speakers, top, engine cover, trim switch. Small stuff at first, but now impeller goes out and runs hot, power steering pump fails and leaks everywhere, and now throttle cable just snaps in the middle of the lake. As I was holding throttle open manually, noticed bolts just vibrating out of engine. Four Winns name came from a contest, if you can use it 4 times (and you can't) without something breaking, you must win something. If you like being stranded in the water, this is the boat for you. Yea it is under warranty, but it don't help you when you are paddling and have to take it back all the time. If you must get one, see about having ores installed on each side and keep a strong rope on board.

 

[H8tank]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Bryant makes an excellent boat, I would check them out further.

 

[superpop]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

GM very well may be around forever, and so may Genmar, but that does not guarantee that the warranty on this boat will be good. They could still emerge from bankruptcy and decide to abandon the warranty coverage or modify it. Why take a chance on this kind of investment. There was another post on here about a guy who purchased a brand new Mariah only to have the floor crack 4 times before Mariah agreed to replace the whole top cap and floor. I hope you can bank on that level of support from a company in bankruptcy. I have had two Volvo power trains and they both performed flawlessly so I am not sure what the bash Volvo thread is about. There is a reason however that they are selling the boat so far off MSRP, one, I am sure that more than a few buyers are questioning the stability and outcome of the company and two, the economy still stinks for purchases like this, most of the dealers are slashing prices if you beat on them long enough.

 

[jkust]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I have to second the Chaparral suggestion. Enought said on Chap just go take a look. Also regading Bryant, the make just a couple hundred boats a year which you probably already know but they are very nice. I however do not like their helm set up but they have some neat innovations. Apparently, the dealers that carry them get no dealer marketing support so the word doesn't get out about them like other brands. As to the Company and their longevity, I would say it should absolutly have some bearing on your decision. Chaparral or Bryant or any other builder could very well have issues in the future...who but the insiders know? Like anything if the price is right go for it. That sounds like an awesome boat especially for a first time owner. Let us know what you decide.

 

[BumbleBeeTuna]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Genmar is using the bankruptcy filing to restructure their debt, they'll be around for a long time.

Circuit City used bankruptcy to "restructure" their debt as well. We see how that worked out. Only advantage there is most warranties were 3rd party.

 

[Kracken]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I owned A Four Winns for 10 years. They are great boats and a lot of bang for the buck. I never had a problem caused by poor workmanship or inferior materials. I believe any warranty on a Four Winns would be honored regardless of the restructuring, much like Oldsmobile and GM.

With all that said. Bryant is a superior boat builder. Cobalt, Bryant, Chap, Chiscraft and Ebbtide are in a class by themselves.

Comparing a Four Winns and a Bryant is not a fare fight.

 

[jkust]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I owned A Four Winns for 10 years. They are great boats and a lot of bang for the buck. I never had a problem caused by poor workmanship or inferior materials. I believe any warranty on a Four Winns would be honored regardless of the restructuring, much like Oldsmobile and GM.

With all that said. Bryant is a superior boat builder. Cobalt, Bryant, Chap, Chiscraft and Ebbtide are in a class by themselves.

Interesting, I wouldn't have put Ebbtide in there only based on seeing their products on their website. No first hand knowledge though.

 

[iBrent]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I saw your post over on the Bryant Boat Owners forum as well. I'll say the same thing here that I was going to say over there.

I went through the same ordeal about 3 months ago. I was comparing all kinds of different brands (in the 20-22 ft range). I was looking at Sea Rays, Stingrays, Four Winns, pretty much every 21 ft for less than 40k. I went with the Bryant. The build quality was far superior and every "option" on other boats was standard equipment. I was amazed that when i optioned out a 21 ft Stingray I was in the same ballpark as the Bryant 210 in pricing. Then it was a no brainer.

Also, one of the benefits of a low volume family builder, is when you call the factory, you speak to the Vice President. How many other people can say that about their boat builders?

 

[dorelse]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Circuit City used bankruptcy to "restructure" their debt as well. We see how that worked out. Only advantage there is most warranties were 3rd party.

Ah...but there are many differences between the 2 situations. The entire boat industry is suffering, where as Best Buy (& Others) where actually growing while Circuit City's sales were falling. Which showed that while Circuit City was suffering consumer electronics sales where actually growing.

If just Genmar's sales were tanked, while Brunswick's & other manufacturers were growing then you could maybe draw parallel's, but there are other forces behind the decline of Genmar's sales, the entire sector is down significantly.

 

[Kracken]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I owned A Four Winns for 10 years. They are great boats and a lot of bang for the buck. I never had a problem caused by poor workmanship or inferior materials. I believe any warranty on a Four Winns would be honored regardless of the restructuring, much like Oldsmobile and GM.

With all that said. Bryant is a superior boat builder. Cobalt, Bryant, Chap, Chiscraft and Ebbtide are in a class by themselves.

Interesting, I wouldn't have put Ebbtide in there only based on seeing their products on their website. No first hand knowledge though.

I have first hand knowledge of Cobalt, Bryant, Chap and Ebbtide. ( never driven a Chap but have been aboard a new one last year...nice boat). I am not suggesting there are no other well built boats out there.

Anyways, Ebbtide is the only boat I know that has a 50 year warranty on the hull, stringers and transom. All hulls are hand laid (no chopper guns). The fit and finish is on par with Cobalt.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I think every boat brand is a bit of a crap shoot. You could steer away from Genmar, towards Brunswick. buy your boat- 2 weeks later see Brunswick declare bankruptcy, too. No guarantees of stability anywhere in boating.

Even if the your particular boat's "brand name" lives on under new ownership, that may or may not mean anything if you need support down the road.

Case in point- my 1999, "125th Anniversary" Chris Craft. Can't do much better than that, right? Well. I wrote C-C to try and obtain an owner's manual and wiring schematic for my boat. "Sorry, can't help you" was the reply. Why? because OMC owned C-C in 1999 and the new owners of Chris Craft either couldn't or wouldn't obtain such archival materials when they purchased "the name".

I've searched everywhere I can think of for 3 months and haven't been successful yet in finding that info.

Happy hunting!

 

[dorelse]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

Genmar is "reorganizing" but their survival is a huge question at this point. They are in fact looking to sell off two or three of their current brands. Which ones will go is still up in the air. (Depends what offers are made.)

Will the new buyers honor the old warranties? That would be up to them. Is FourWinns one of them? No one is saying.

But no matter how you look at it, Genmar must sell off or consolitate their brands if they are to survive. No telling yet how that will shake out. Even the dealers are begining to get nervous.

As pointed out, Genmar has pettitioned the court to allkow them to pay out on warranty work, but,,, the suppliers that Genmar owes money to are NOT the least bit happy and feel they should be paid first. Their point (a very valid one) is they are owed money NOW compared to a warranty that may cost something at some point in the future.

I agree with you 100%, you will see fewer brands after Genmar emerges from bankruptcy. Their current brands have a lot of 'middle' tier players (Four Winns, Larson, ...too many Mercury's (using a Ford Auto analogy), a couple Lincolns & 1 Ford (Glastron), and just a whole host of brands that crisscross all over the place.

Some brand consolidation & differentiation might not be all bad.

 

[Kracken]

Re: Would you still buy a Four Winns?

I agree with you to a point Dorelse.

The problem is many boaters are religiously devoted to their brand. If you don't believe me...start a "who makes the best boats" thread". Or the also fun "who makes the worst boat"

Differentiation is great for the consumer, not so cost effective on the production side.