89 olds cutlass supreme update

[drewmitch44]

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=341529

Here is the link from my first question. I was about to change the fuel pump in hopes that that was the problem. Well with some messing around I notice that When I pull the fuse for the fuel injectors for 3 cylinders that the motor runs and I can rev it up without it cutting off as soon as I touch the gas. I know that at that point that it is only running on 3 of the 6 cylinders. So Im pretty sure that it is not the fuel pump. Can anyone help now that I have this new info? THANKS
The origional problem is that as soon as I touch the gas when the car is started and ideling it stalls. It starts and idles but I cannon give it any gas unless I unplug the 3 injectors fuse.
Here is a pic of the fuse that I pulled it is fuse "1" in the picture.

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Can anyone help me? Im not sure if the problem is electrical with the fuel injectors or if the fuel injectors are clogged or if there is some other problem. Please someone help me save some money!!!!!!

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

I would be sure the coil is firing on all six when it starts to cut out. You really need a sevice manual. First look at the plugs . Do they all look the same? If not replace the entire set and see if that helps.

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

It starts to cut out as soon as as you touch the gas when its running. If i unplug the fuse for 3 of the 6 fuel injectors it can rev up but obviously its is only running on 3 cylinders. So if one of the spark plugs was not running would it not just still rev but only be running on 5 cylinders? I Have a service manual and There is really not a troubleshooting issue that describes what is happening. Thanks for your reply VERRY VERRY MUCH i will most likely change the plugs though just cause I dont know when they were last changed. The car has 52K miles on it. THANKS AGAIN!!

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Any othes ideas? Im not sure if its a electrical problem or a clogged fuel injector! Is there any sites that can help me if you great folks cannot? THANKS!!!!!!

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

w-body.com

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

That seems like a good site!! Its low volume though but sometimes that means on these forums that the most passionate and experianced are going to reply and I really appreciat it!! I already learned that my olds is the same as a pontiac grand prix! I did not know that! That car is on my service manual though!! I had no Idea!!! Now I see the similarity of them!! THANKS 03 COBRA!!

 

[ssb33r]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

pm me the year, engine, vin, options, and a better pic of the fuses youve been pulling and if you can the tell me the fuse numbers and ill look it up on all data and lt you know what they do, each fuel injector is NOT individually fused. Are the fuses under the hood or under the dash???

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Took it to a mechanic today and he is thinking that is is a short somewhere that is causing the fuse problem with the injectors. He said its eather that or 3 of the injectors just took a dump at the same time which is not likely. This guy knows his stuff and has all the equipment! so Im going to let him do his thing!

 

[lowkee]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

I vote for fuel pump. Think about it.. with six injectors opening, just enough fuel gets delivered for it to start, but not rev. Take away three and it still gets enough to stay running, as it only has to supply 3 injectors with fuel, not all 6. Then again, it may be just a clogged fuel filter problem. Easy way to check for fuel pump issue.. unhook fuel intake line, turn key to 'on' (fuel pump primes for FI system), if fuel squirts out, fuel pump is working. There is likely a safer means to test it, but that'll work, too.

May also consider the plug wires being in the wrong order (not beingt sure what the backstory is of this car). Some seriously low mileage for such an oldie!

Let's see what the mech has to say.

 

[ssb33r]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Ok if hes gonna do his thing i wont bother seein what i can find

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

I vote for fuel pump. Think about it.. with six injectors opening, just enough fuel gets delivered for it to start, but not rev. Take away three and it still gets enough to stay running, as it only has to supply 3 injectors with fuel, not all 6. Then again, it may be just a clogged fuel filter problem. Easy way to check for fuel pump issue.. unhook fuel intake line, turn key to 'on' (fuel pump primes for FI system), if fuel squirts out, fuel pump is working. There is likely a safer means to test it, but that'll work, too.

May also consider the plug wires being in the wrong order (not beingt sure what the backstory is of this car). Some seriously low mileage for such an oldie!

Let's see what the mech has to say.

I thought about that about the 3 injectors but you cannot pull the other injector bank and the other 3 cylinders run. Its hard to explain but thank you guys so much for all the trouble. ssb33r thanks also for your help. I trust this guy as he has worked on my familys cars for as long as I can remember. Never had any problems with his work. He is retired and he works at his own pace and charges very reasonable prices. I will let everyone know what the problem ultimately was.

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

OK so here is where I am. I took the car to the mechanic. He ended up replacing all 6 of the fuel injectors and put everything back together. He tested it out and said it was fixed and called me. I went to pick it up ($500 for parts and labor which i think is a great price) and It ran like a dream! My house is only about 3-4 miles from his house so I did not drive the car that far or for verry long. Well yesterday I started the car and it was running great and about 2-3 miles down the backroad that I was testing it out on it did the same thing! So I am back at square one!!!! Im so frustrated! I will most likely call the guy back but I wanted to see what you guys think! Its doing the starts and only runs for a few seconds then it dies. I gave it the night yesterday and this morning I ran it for 2-3 miles again and It ran great until it did it again! It seems to go farther if i am really easy on the gas pedal but eventually it dies. When I turn the key to the "on" position I hear the fuel pump prime like it normally does. What do you guys think before I call this guy back later today? THANKS!!!!!

 

[dr_bowtie]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

I didnt read all of the previous post but did you change the fuel filter...?

Check pump pressure...?

it could very well be the pump still...when you unhooked 3 of the 6 injectors that means 3 of them were not pulsing and using up the available fuel...3 will use less than 6 so it would be easier to keep up with 3...

Pumps can be hit or miss as well...sometimes when they get old they lose a little bit of connection in the pump and that can make then run spuratic...

also check teh tanks ground...if the top of the tank is rusted the sender unit may not be achieving full ground...this wont mess with the fuel gauge as much as it will the pump...pump needs more amps then volts...

you may need to re-do the ground to make sure you have a full 12volts at teh tank..

check the fuel pressure this will be the tell tale sign of what is going on...test it at idle and test it at around 3,000rpm....holdit for a minute and see if it drops..pressure regulator on the engine can go bad too...the vacuum line needs to have vacuum so check for cracks...pressure should hold constant if not raise a little during loading...

I have held one at 4,500rpm for short burst before I have seen any drop in pressure...even if a pump sounds good it can be bad...

on that car it is very important that ALL the grounds be clean...from the battery to body, battery to engine and engine to frame...add some if you arent sure..especially if you live in a place where rust is an issue...

 

[slia67]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

When you ck the pressure from the fuel pump, also check the flow rate.

I didn't go back and research your previous thread so this question may have been answered there, but... have you checked your coils?

 

[Big Bubba]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

DrewMitch44,
Good day to you. Sorry for the disappointment after your car got repaired. I have been following this thread to see the outcome and wish you had better luck but you will figure it out. I really think you have an electrical problem in the fuel system arena. Did the mechanic look at all of your wire harnesses/wiring comming form the fuel tank fuel pump to the front of the car into the engine compartment. Like i said I replaced a buddies fuel pump thinking it was bad becuase it was doing dang near the same thing yours is doing but ended up being a bad wire harnes comming off of the top of the fuel tank fule pump comming into the first big plug connection underneath the van. I am guessing with all the years of driving it those elctrical wires were flexing right at the plug in connection and eventually wore wear they were not making the greatest of connections. Let us know hope my suggestion helps you out. have a great day, Bob

 

[aspeck]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

The fact that it got better with the replacing of the injectors leads me to believe that some were bad and you needed to change them anyway. However, they showed up as bad because you are running on low fuel pressure, probably because the pump is not working as effeciently as it once was, but it could be caused by a bad ground or an intermittant short in the electrical system.

You are going to have to check the pressure on the fuel rails. Once the car acts up, does it continue, or does the problem "come and go?" If it is constant, get it to act up and then get it to the mechanic so he can see and put a gage on the rails to check right away. There is also the possibility, although slim, that a couple of the injectors that installed are bad. It has happened before ...

 

[dolluper]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Crank sensor....or short in injector wiring...think about it pull the fuse still only runs on three.....cranksensor usually makes it die no run condition till it cools like a bad coil cools then works...hope this helps

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Ok I went to the shop today and the mechanic said that he was pretty sure that it was the catalytic converter that is bad. Once the car warms up it does its tricks. He thinks that once it warms up that it is getting blocked and that I should have the cat replaced. Im going to pick it up at 5pm today and take it right to the muffler shop to have the cat replaced. Does this sound like it could be the problem to you guys? I am at my witts end with this car! It runs like a dream when it runs then 30-40 min into the drive it cuts out! Its crazy!!!!!!! Im pretty sure he checked grounds and other things! THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lowkee]

Re: 89 olds cutlass supreme update

Hehe, maybe I just don't know enough about cars, but that sounds a little like blaming the door handle for a broken windshield. Kind of a 'never the two shall meet' diagnosis. If the cat was restricted, I would guess it would be more restricted when cold.

Maybe it's time to bring your car to an actual dealer. Does olds still exist? Maybe a buick dealer, since they were always direct competitors (read: carbon copies). A good dealer, even at dealer rates, will normally be cheaper than a 3rd party mechanic, simply because they have been there, done that with only one particular brand of car, so the chance of (mis)diagnosing the hood latch for a lower engine knock issue is slim.