Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

[fabrimacator21]

How long until we see electric/hybrid boats? Or do they already make them?

 

[divinginn]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I think that would make a cool project.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

Ditto . Would be very cool. Time to start looking into it on a bigger scale than r/c stuff.

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

Here you go, There are several others out there as well.

http://www.cachriscraft.com/news/news052008_hybrid.php

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I don't remember the brand but at a Cabela's in CT they had a small fishing rig with two electric trolling motors controlled by a joystick for steering.

 

[lowkee]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I'm not sure how useful any of that would be on a boat. There is no breaking to 'recycle' the energy, batteries weigh a lot, the power to weight ratio would be off the handle, there are no red lights or bow-to-stern traffic to warrant electric-only mode.

It seems diesel is the way to go for boats, as they are just plain efficient no matter the speed (compared to gaso-hog).

 

[RollingWanderer]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

There is a company called Epic that is making electric/hybrid wakeboard boats. http://www.epicboats.com/ As I recall from an article in a recent boating mag (I forget which one), it'll run for 1 or 2 hrs at wakeboarding speeds on batteries alone.

-RW

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I'm not sure how useful any of that would be on a boat. There is no breaking to 'recycle' the energy, batteries weigh a lot, the power to weight ratio would be off the handle, there are no red lights or bow-to-stern traffic to warrant electric-only mode.

It seems diesel is the way to go for boats, as they are just plain efficient no matter the speed (compared to gaso-hog).

Well theres a few ways to go.... Like a diesel generator that provided electricity to the motor while charging batteries.... Sort of like locomotives do. I'm hoping hydrogen is gonna be the the preferred green power source though. That way we can still have a nice rumble with great power.... he'll we might even get to keep our v8's. Would just need a conversion kit.

Also batteries keep getting better and lighter.

One cool thing about electric is you get 100% of your tq instantly.

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

There is a company called Epic that is making electric/hybrid wakeboard boats. http://www.epicboats.com/ As I recall from an article in a recent boating mag (I forget which one), it'll run for 1 or 2 hrs at wakeboarding speeds on batteries alone.

-RW

http://23e.epicboats.com/

Now that is cool.... 50% less fuel consumption and it can run off batteries for up to 3 hours. Not to mention 90% less emissions.

Looks like they used a generator and batteries.

I'd like to know the top speed compared to a conventional rig.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I know there are several electric only pontoons being offered.

There is and electric outboard company called Torqeedo, they are essentially huge trolling motors but I am sure the market is very very small.

I really think gas will have to sustain $4-$5 a gallon before anyone gets really serious about electric.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

there are many in europe.

 

[lowkee]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

Now that is cool.... 50% less fuel consumption and it can run off batteries for up to 3 hours. Not to mention 90% less emissions.

A host of misleading advertising on there. (No such thing as a free lunch)

-- 50% less fuel consumption - No data given at all on this claim
-- 3 Hours at wakesurfing (not wakeboarding) speeds - Running on batteries only or does the generator run the whole time, too?
-- 90% less emissions - 'At rope length' Which means you inhale less emissions while wakeboarding. This does not mean it emits less. Again, no data given

My question is.. can it be run all day long (6+ hours)? They fail to mention any number greater than 3 hours, which coupled with the vague and unsubstantiated claims, makes me wonder if it can even be used beyond 3 hours or if it must be stopped for 'about an hour' (their words), recharged, then you can continue on your way. Are you in 'limping mode' while under way after it discharges?

I don't know. I fail to see any real benefits to having electric on a boat. You put a big motor in place of an engine, you stack in 300-500lbs of batteries, then take up more space having an engine sit next to it for recharging (and presumably real-time power). A wakeboard boat may be a compelling niche case, as the extra weight added makes for bigger wakes, but what about when the batteries run down.. can it even get on plane?

BTW- Batteries aren't getting lighter every day (not for us, anyway). The Li-Ion battery (powering every 'hybrid' car out there) has been available for 18 years and has not changed. Li-Po batteries have been around for 15 years and are still prohibitively expensive for anything but gadget use and anything larger than a PDA battery makes the risk of deadly explosions very real. There hasn't been any real (publicly available) breakthrough in battery tech in many many years. I have seen a demonstration of a military battery which outlasted a car (starter) battery by a good 20 times, but that doesn't do us, as non-military, any good. (It was demo'd as a motorcycle starter battery, which was a pretty killer use, since MC batteries are often way too small for their intended load)

TD- you mention they are all over europe.. do you have some links handy? I'm curious to read some non-sales-pitch specs and use cases.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

Here's a link guaranteed to spending some more time looking at this stuff on the net...

http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboats.htm

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I'm no expert on this subject, but to my understanding the advantages that hybrid cars have over regular gas powered vehicles is not transferable to boats.

As Lowkee mentioned, hybrid cars generate and store electicity from the vehicle's brakes and the hybrid's engine does not idle and consume fuel while the vehicle is stopped in heavy traffic situations. I don't see how these features could be used to advantage on a boat.

If I'm wrong please enlighten me.

 

[lowkee]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

Quote from the link posted above..

Electra Marine does not appear to be on the Web, but they produce the Electra 180, an elegant 48-volt fiberglass monohull that is 17'10" in length and 78" abeam, weighing in at 1800 pounds and the ElectraCat 185, a fibreglass catamaran hull weighing 2000 pounds, 8'6" abeam and 18'2" long. Both have a draft of just 20" and boast a top speed of 15 km/h (about 9 mph).

9MPH.. not even close to plane speed. Cool if you just like putting alongside the shoreline, I suppose. Just don't have an emergency. That seems to be a universal case with the electrics.. displacement hulls and 5MPH top speeds with the occasional 6MPH speed demon. No mention of hybrid configs, though, which is curious.

 

[Iandayen]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

There would be advantages to using electric over gas for some reasons.

There is no RPM limit on an electric motor, you can keep going and going as long as you have the power to do it.

More RPM directly equates into more speed.

BTW- Batteries aren't getting lighter every day (not for us, anyway). The Li-Ion battery (powering every 'hybrid' car out there) has been available for 18 years and has not changed. Li-Po batteries have been around for 15 years and are still prohibitively expensive for anything but gadget use and anything larger than a PDA battery makes the risk of deadly explosions very real. There hasn't been any real (publicly available) breakthrough in battery tech in many many years. I have seen a demonstration of a military battery which outlasted a car (starter) battery by a good 20 times, but that doesn't do us, as non-military, any good. (It was demo'd as a motorcycle starter battery, which was a pretty killer use, since MC batteries are often way too small for their intended load)

Yes they are. and Li-Ion is not the way to go for batteries, and that is why they haven't gotten smaller, no one is researching them. It's all about fuel cell electric power. Most of the Hydrogen cars you hear people talking about are actually an electric car, powered by a hydrogen fuel cell.

Here is a link that will explain how a fuel cell works, in case you didn't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

The Hydrogen used in a fuel cell like that is small enough that a smaller hydrogen container, on a boat with a mid sized fuel cell will run all day.

I imagine, with the correct gearing ratio, the correct fuel cell and Prop size you could easily get well above planing speeds and even faster than some of the gas speedboats out there if you had the money/time to do so.

The weight of the Fuel cell would be no more than the weight of a V8 - if not much much less.

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

The problem isn't the electric motor, it can easily out perform a gas motor. The problem is supplying enough power to that motor for sustained periods. Two things will have to happen, the electric motor will need to become more efficient, and the means to store and supply energy will need to be light and longer lasting...as well as less harmful for the enviroment. The biggest snafu with even hybrid cars is the multitude of harmful chemicals used in the batteries themselves (which have a service life of approx. 10 years if memory serves). So not so enviromentally friendly are they...

Ian

 

[Iandayen]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

The problem isn't the electric motor, it can easily out perform a gas motor. The problem is supplying enough power to that motor for sustained periods.

Kind of.

Efficiency ratios have been being studied on electric vs i.c. vehicles for a while.

Efficiency on a diesel car showed about 22% - on an electric showed roughly 34% (if i recall correctly)

I think Honda has just put out a new electric car that claims 60% but not sure it has been tested to prove true or not yet.

The biggest snafu with even hybrid cars is the multitude of harmful chemicals used in the batteries themselves (which have a service life of approx. 10 years if memory serves)

Key word there is hybrid. Hybrid cars don't have the room for both a fuel and hydrogen tank, so they rely on lithium ion batteries, which you are correct about.

A pure electric car will be using a fuel cell system. The only thing really holding back fuel cell technology from being in production is the lack of filling stations for hydrogen.

Here is Honda's fuel cell vehicle - http://world.honda.com/HDTV/FCX/FCX-concept-testdrive/

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

A host of misleading advertising on there. (No such thing as a free lunch)

-- 50% less fuel consumption - No data given at all on this claim
-- 3 Hours at wakesurfing (not wakeboarding) speeds - Running on batteries only or does the generator run the whole time, too?
-- 90% less emissions - 'At rope length' Which means you inhale less emissions while wakeboarding. This does not mean it emits less. Again, no data given

My question is.. can it be run all day long (6+ hours)? They fail to mention any number greater than 3 hours, which coupled with the vague and unsubstantiated claims, makes me wonder if it can even be used beyond 3 hours or if it must be stopped for 'about an hour' (their words), recharged, then you can continue on your way. Are you in 'limping mode' while under way after it discharges?

I'm sure it'll run as long as you have fuel for the generator. They said it'll run for an hour towing a wakeboarder without burning 1 drop of gas so that should tell you it'll run all day with the generator going. That technology has been around for years in locomotives. If you were to put a diesel generator in a car which supplied electricity to an electric motor I wouldn't doubt it would get 100mpg with PLENTY of power.

I missed the "at rope length" comment.

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Hybrid/electric boats.... How long?

I think the point is that they would have a hard time adapting currently used technologies to water craft with any effieciency or usefulness. The larger the craft, the more room you have to work with, but on craft samller than 20' which is what most people have, space becomes a real issue (It would be hard to fish from a Prius). But to say that it can't be done is obsurd. I would be that there are technologies being created as we speak that are beyong the relm of most of our thinking. That's why I'm typing on here instead of working in my lab (LOL).