Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

TilliamWe

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Sorry fellas. The Corp of Engineers has tried but here's some bad news:



Ravenous, Leaping Asian Carp Poised to Invade Great Lakes

Corp of Engineers close canal again

November 24th

The Great Lakes are under threat from an Asian carp invasion that could wipe out fishing stocks, and with it, the lakes? billion dollar fishery. On Friday, officials from the Army Corps of Engineers reported that genetic material from the carp had been found for the first time in a nearby river beyond an elaborate barrier system, which has cost millions of dollars and was meant to block their passage [The New York Times]. There is concern that if carp make it into Lake Michigan, they will gobble up the plankton that native fish feed on.

Officials also say that recreational boating may be affected?the carp can grow up to 4 feet long and weigh up to 100 pounds, and the massive fish will occasionally leap up and strike boaters. Since they were found to be moving up the Mississippi River in 2002, agencies have been trying everything they can think of to slow them down, including erecting the expensive electric barriers that cost around $9 million. The barriers work by sending low-voltage electric current through steel cables that are strung across the canal; this creates an electric field that?s uncomfortable for the fish and that?s supposed to prevent them from swimming across it.

No one has actually spotted any carp on the far side of the underwater electric fence, but new tests let scientists detect the DNA of fish in a river or lake without actually seeing them. Fish have to pee and poop, too, and epithelial cells sloughed off from their bodies showed that Asian carp were in the Chicago Sanitary and Ship canal last month above an electrical barrier that was supposed to keep them out of the Great Lakes [Detroit Free Press]. If the carp have indeed passed through the barrier, that means only a single lock, which regularly opens to allow ships to pass, separates the carp from the world?s largest freshwater reserve. The only non-threatening explanation for the DNA is that ! carp feces or eggs could have been carried across the barrier by ship and barge traffic. The carp DNA was found as close as eight miles south of Lake Michigan and one mile south of the last shipping lock.

Ironically, the fish were originally imported to help Southern fish farmers fight algae-filled ponds in the 1970s. By the 1990s, flooding had pushed them into the mighty Mississippi and they began swimming north. Joel Brammeier, acting president of the Alliance for the Great Lakes, said ?this is an absolute emergency? [The New York Times], because if the carp move past the last lock, there will be no stopping them.

Brammeier is calling for the last lock to be closed and all shipping traffic into Lake Michigan to be halted. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said it and other agencies had met since Wednesday to consider the best course of action. Authorities will be sampling the channel to try to locate any loose carp [AP]. Since rivers and lakes are very different ecosystems, scientists can?t say for sure how well the carp would survive if they make it to the Great Lakes. But a worst case scenario has them spreading like a cancer?a doomsday scenario for a region already weakened by invasive species such as zebra mussels.
 

Huron Angler

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

I share your concern and worry about all the great lakes eventually being taken over by these monstrous worthless fish.

I'm not sure there is going to be any solution other than killing off everything and starting over...which is not a reasonable solution for freshwater seas.

Another article claiming 32 DNA samples have been found east of the barrier:eek:
http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/70637997.html

I sure hope something eats asian carp eggs or fingerlings:confused:
 

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jacknbella

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Here in Peoria, the IL river is over-whelmed with Asian Carp and if you've never seen one in action, it's almost unbelievable. No one dares to go skiing or tubing anymore because massive 20-30 pounders have a history of giving people black eyes, broken limbs, or worse. Just last month, on our final cruise of the 2009 season, we had 3 "flyers" jump right into the back of our boat. Thankfully, they were small and didn't knock anyone out. The 4-yr-old thought it was cool but would think different if he ever got hit.

I pray these fish don't make it anywhere new, although, it's inevitable... Sorry...
 

roscoe

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

they should have closed that lock and sealed it 3 years ago
 

Moody Blue

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Sad, scary but inevitable. Screw around with nature and suffer the consequences.

Can't imagine how it will change recreational activities, not to mention sport and commercial fishing in the great lakes basin.

Surprised there has not been more (any?) information in the news. This is a big (BIG) issue and it seems to be a secret.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Here in Peoria, ... No one dares to go skiing or tubing anymore because massive 20-30 pounders have a history of giving people black eyes, broken limbs, or worse...

I wouldn't say "noone" Jack. Still plenty of people skiing, tubing, and jet skiing. And while there have been injuries, it's not an everyday occurence. The shallower the water the more likely they are to jump. In the channel, they don't jump too bad, or too often. In the 3' areas (that's everywhere except the narrow channel, for those of you not familiar with the Illinois River) you have to be careful. But you shouldn't be tubing or skiiing there anyway.

You want to see a crazy day, try the Original Redneck Fishing Tournament in Bath, IL.
 

Huron Angler

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Well it sounds like this problem is going to be addressed, I was wondering what action would be taken...doesn't seem like a viable long-term solution. Have the geniuses down south that caused this problem been informed of the massive debacle they created yet is my question.

From this mornings Detroit News:

"Tonight, federal and Illinois officials will begin poisoning a section of the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal in the hope of killing the invasive carp that may have moved north of an electric barrier designed to keep them out of Lake Michigan."

full article- http://www.detnews.com/article/20091202/METRO/912020339/Chicago-canal-to-be-poisoned-to-kill-invasive-carp
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

I believe I saw where this type Carp is considered a delicacy in China. There is a company that harvest them for sale to China. Looks like a way to get some of our money back :D
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

I believe I saw where this type Carp is considered a delicacy in China. There is a company that harvest them for sale to China. Looks like a way to get some of our money back :D

There is company in Havana, IL (or very close to Havana) that is able to make fertilizer out of them. That's the reason for the Original Redneck Fishing Tournament.
I also heard said once, that if you like canned tuna fish, you would like canned silver carp better. But since they don't bite lures or hooks, noone is too sure how to catch them, sort of dragging huge nets. And that's not a great idea either.
There is a guy locally named Chris Brackett that bow hunts them. He does charter excursions, too. I am not affiliated with him at all, but thought you all might want to see his site:

http://www.brackettoutdoors.com/

This way you Lake Michigan guys can have a new sport if they make it to you??
 

lowkee

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

But since they don't bite lures or hooks, noone is too sure how to catch them

Oh man. That is a big tidbit none of the articles mention. The entire time I have read about this issue I always had in the back of my mind, "Man, those fish must be AWESOME to catch!". I had no idea they didn't bite lures. That is horrid! I didn't think there was such an evil fish :eek:
 

angus63

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Fox News is running a special report this afternoon concerning the invasive and dangerous traits of this carp. Waterskiers beware!!!!
 

rbh

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Heard this morning about the potential poisoning of the carp, in a little lake around here thats what had to be done to eradicate perch, as someone decided to transplant them into an ecosystem that has for the majority rainbow/brown trout
if the species is not local, it has nothing to prey on it and will certanly get out of control.
 

erikgreen

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

It'll be sad if the carp get into the great lakes, just like it'll be sad when/if the other invasive species moving up the chain get here. Things like zebra and quagga mussels, red shrimp, lamprey, ruffe, etc can't for the most part be wiped out, but have to be prevented.

It's outrageous that even though many of these species are being imported in bilge water from other countries, there's still no law on the books after many years that forces a solution... a mid-ocean bilge water change, or sterilization, or something. Your politicians at work.

Tougher laws are needed to keep non native species from being imported.. not just in bilge water, but in any way. Witness the lion fish plague in the caribbean. Pretty fish, so an aquarium had some in a tank, which was broken in a hurricane and now there are lionfish eating absolutely everything in sight on coral reefs... without the creatures that they're eating, the reefs will die or at least change dramatically.

If you look back far enough, even the problem with africanized honey bees could have been prevented with something similar.

But somehow it's still ok to order live animals and plants from across the world, ship them to your home, and keep them. Some clueless people even "release" the fish or animal when they tire of keeping it, thinking it less cruel than euthanasia. It's really the owners just being irresponsible. Witness the spread of pythons in the everglades. Feral dog and cat problems across the country.

If these carp make it to lake superior, you can count me in for spearfishing for them in scuba gear or free diving. Big, slow fish I can kill as freely as I like? Weee! Fertilizer for everyone!

Erik
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

I remember as a kid when you could lay on the ground without worry about being bitten. We used to play football in the front yard. No way now that fire ants were imported. Pretty much carpet the ground in the south. Hard to mow your lawn without your eyes on the ground checking for mounds of biting ants.. Sometimes there is no mound to see and they still are there. The global economy will continue to bring more crap over here. Unlike bees they attack for fun. You can't even lay on the drive to work on something
 

madgadget

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

I'm glad to be in the UK when I read about stuff biting you.. lol. Bad news about the fish tho :(
 

lowkee

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Reflecting on the posts about other examples of invasive species, I think this entire topic boils down to one thing.. people hate change.

Tougher laws are needed to keep non native species from being imported..

I'm sure the natives of this continent thought the same about europeans, africans and asians. Our ancestors didn't care about existing laws and well-being when they slaughtered millions of natives to take over the area. Why should fish care about our laws and well-being? Invasive species is an understatement when it comes to us.

My point is, if a creature is able to live and thrive in an area, it belongs there. The only real complaints I hear are ones of "These are cutting into the profit margins of my current way of doing business" or worse, "I was here first!". Like a fish cares! At least one business is changing with the times, the one making fertilizer using the carp. Boiled down, this is simply a complaint of "Things are changing faster than I can change with them". If a species can live somewhere on this planet, it will live there. Non law-passing species (anything but us 'civilized' humans) could care less what our politicians dream up for text on paper.

The one method of controlling the population which everyone is seemingly avoiding is... import some predators! Sure, the entire ecosystem will change, but guess what, it has changed already, and change is constant, so what is the problem besides "Change sucks! Ban change, Washington!"? Are people so delusional as to think they can legislate the laws of nature? To think building a fence in a river is any less insane than building a fence across a strip of land where someone drew a line on a map, is folly.
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

In Texas they are experimenting with a gnat that bites the head off the fire ant. I don't know how it is working. The gnat won't eliminate the fire ant population but make it more bearable. Maybe they can come up with a Carp predator
 

oceansbreeze

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Wow, this is a scary thing for sure ... and not so much that it can damage the billions in commercial fishing, and what not, but the pleasure boating, and treasures of these great lakes..... Once they get in there, and continue migrating north, its only a matter of time before they manage to get into the smaller lakes up in Northern Ontario (and anything North in Canada for that matter) - I really hope the DNA tests were flawed, and only due to the bacteria and DNA being carried by ships and drifting in the currents...

The one method of controlling the population which everyone is seemingly avoiding is... import some predators! Sure, the entire ecosystem will change,

Let's dump some bull sharks in the river!! that should be fun to see the impact!! That's the only thing I can think of that would attack and devour these carp, as well as anything else that gets in the water.... *starts humming the Jaws theme*
 

DayCruiser

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Wow, this is a scary thing for sure ... and not so much that it can damage the billions in commercial fishing, and what not, but the pleasure boating, and treasures of these great lakes..... Once they get in there, and continue migrating north, its only a matter of time before they manage to get into the smaller lakes up in Northern Ontario (and anything North in Canada for that matter) - I really hope the DNA tests were flawed, and only due to the bacteria and DNA being carried by ships and drifting in the currents...



Let's dump some bull sharks in the river!! that should be fun to see the impact!! That's the only thing I can think of that would attack and devour these carp, as well as anything else that gets in the water.... *starts humming the Jaws theme*

I think the Bull shark is already making its way up the river :(

http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/ecology/fresh-bull.htm
 

lowkee

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Re: Asian Carp almost to Lake Michigan

Let's dump some bull sharks in the river!!

LOL! Tempting, but there are other predators which keep them in check.

From wikipedia:

Carp lay eggs by the hundreds of thousands, yet their population remains the same, so the eggs and young must perish in similar vast numbers. Eggs and fry often fall victim to bacteria, fungi, and the vast array of tiny predators in the pond environment. Those fortunate enough to survive to juvenile are preyed upon by other fish such as the northern pike and largemouth bass.

Northern pike and Bass are much less people scary than a bull shark (though likely not as fun to catch). Obviously this fish has not taken over the world (we aren't fish slaves.. yet), so there are natural predators both large and small which keep this fish in check elsewhere in the world. We simply need to find out which ones are most compatible with our current local ecology.

Someone mentioned they don't bite lures, but this says otherwise. Not sure who to believe, now..

Common carp are extremely popular with anglers in many parts of Europe, and their popularity as quarry is slowly increasing among anglers in the United States (though destroyed as pests in many areas), and southern Canada. Carp are also popular with spear, bow, and fly fishermen.
 
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