Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

At the risk of going way off topic, I definitely agree with SmokingCrater. While the perception of many people is that a big truck is always safer, the numbers don't lie. How many lives could be saved if that perception changed?

Now I will somewhat reverse myself and say that life is risky. Hardly anyone gets out of it alive. I like risky sports and I accept the conseqenses if I get injured or die. To know the risks and still choose to take them is one thing, but the big SUV industry has mislead the general public into thinking their vehicles are the safest on the road. They are playing on our fears for profit. That's immoral.

 

[dorelse]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

might want to reconsider...

About 2 months ago there was a picture on the front page of a local paper. Honda civic pulled out in front of a F250. Civic had a damaged front end, nothing too bad but probably not totaled either. The owner was shaken but not hurt. Pickup was upside down in the ditch, cab collapsed, owner was under a white sheet. The car had pulled out without seeing the truck, the truck hit the front end and lifted up, rolled, slid over a curb and down the ditch upside down. Accidents like this a VERY common.

I'm with you on that particular accident where a truck gets launched via a nice Civic ramp. That said, physics still applies...a compact/small car will always lose when trying absorb the kinetic energy of a much larger truck. The IIHS even backed that up when they completed testing of all the new subcompacts that started arriving a few years ago. They said a Smart car (just an example) will always suffer significantly more damage in a collision vs a Suburban.

Do trucks rollover more? Absolutely, and I would agree that there will be more injuries if that happens. I think both arguments are 100% valid...the outcomes of either vehicle (and occupants) will depend greatly on the specific parameters of each accident.

On topic regarding the Forrester towing a boat over its rated weight capacity:

I think there is a major flaw in the OP's logic...the HUGE assumption that a UK Forrester (which is rated at a tow capacity of 4800 lbs) is built exactly the same as a US Forrester.

IF they are, then yes, it might be Subaru attempting to reduce liability in the US. (Kind of begs the question of why he's so eager to increase his personal liability, no only in $$ but his family's safety...)

Regardless, its his decision, and I truly do respect it. My only thought is this...the Brit's tend to be pretty uptight about their car's safety reg's as well, so I would think that if the Forrester was marginal at towing 4800 lbs it wouldn't be rated for it. That leads me to believe that their could be differences in the cars (say upgraded brakes, or something) that makes the US version less likely to be able to tow it.

​

I have towed with my Kia minivan, rated at 3500 lbs, at its max capacity, and the same boat & gear with my truck, rated to tow 8000 lbs. Both did fine, however, the boat & minivan combo, you could definitely feel the tail wagging the dog, and my brake rotors warped b/c of the heat...so it definitely was at its limit. (And if rotors are warping from the heat, it was over its limit...)

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck.

BTW...if you're talking about a 3 mile trip to the local lake on flat terrain going 30 mph...then yeah, I'd tow with it too...

 

[roscoe]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

Your all wheel drive, electronic stability control, and all the prayers in the world won't help you when your rear wheels are jacked up off the ground and the car is 90* to the trailer, with the trailer pushing you into oncoming traffic. Or when the wind catches the boat and pulls you off the road.

I'll steer clear of Tn on my next trip south.


And yes, you need brakes on the trailer.

Lets not even mention the combined weight rating of cargo passengers and trailer.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

Your all wheel drive, electronic stability control, and all the prayers in the world won't help you when your rear wheels are jacked up off the ground and the car is 90* to the trailer, with the trailer pushing you into oncoming traffic. Or when the wind catches the boat and pulls you off the road.

I'll steer clear of Tn on my next trip south.

+1

Capacity ratings exist for a reason. Good reason. Legitimate reason. Reason based on a desire to not kill innocent people.

I don't drive a 3/4 ton truck as my daily driver because I just love buying gas. I drive it bacause it has the capacity to pull and stop my boat. My 1/2 ton didn't, so I bought a different vehicle!

GCWR- check
Tongue Weight - check
Tow Capacity - check

 

[marke077]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I think the difference in recommended max tow weight also depends on the trailer. Here in Finland (and some other EU countries) all trailers that has a combined weight of over 750kgs(boat and trailer) has to have brakes on it. So almost none of the standard trailers that are used in the US for smaller boats(about 17-20ft) are legal to use on the road here..

 

[JoLin]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

Yeah that's light. 750kg=1650 lbs

It varies by State, but I think the limits here are quite a bit higher before brakes are required.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

Hey, that Arima is cool. Now the trick would be to find one in my area. All the dealerships are in New England and the Pacific NW, but I'm sure some must have trickled down. I like the C-Dory too, even though they seem to have ripped off their name from Cape Dory yachts. This forum is great. Thanks, guys..

Dory is a style of hull. The C-Dory is pretty much a dory shaped hull. I'm pretty sure there was some significance to the "C" also at one point. The company has been transferred around a little bit just recently.

There have been 2 commercially available boats mentioned already that fall below the towing capacity of the Forester.

Arima and C-Dory.

I have a couple others in mind that I will find tonight when I get a chance.

 

[izoomie]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I loved my Arima. 15'11" X 7 1/2'. Boat/engine/trailer = 2150lbs.​

http://www.arimaboats.com/se16.htm​

How come when the tops up it looks like a yamaha, and when the top's down it looks like a honda?

How do you do that?

 

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

The question about tow limits varying by country is interesting. I did some internet research (so take it with a grain of salt) and found out why the towing limits vary between Europe and the US. Correct me if I'm wrong, any Europeans out there.

#1 There's no difference in the vehicle sold in the US and EU, so that's not a factor.

#2 Towing is regulated differently in the EU. Here in the US a regular driver's license allows you to drive anything short of an 18-wheeler and tow the space shuttle if your hitch is rated for it (I'm exaggerating a little). In Europe if you have a medium sized load (I think maybe 750 kg?) you need an additional license and you have a lower speed limit than everyone else. Also your trailer must meet more stringent standards like having brakes (a good idea here, too) and gets annual inspections.

#3 In the US we customarily put 10% of the weight of a trailer on the hitch. In Europe they do 5 or 6%. That means they can tow a lot more weight without raising the front wheels off the ground. It works for them so maybe that 10% rule of thumb we've heard about is overly conservative, or maybe their trailers are designed differently to account for the different weight distribution.

So you can look at it like somebody doesn't trust Americans to tow responsibly with well-maintained and/or balanced trailers so they cut their towing recommendations in half for us. Kinda like giving toddlers a dull pair of scissors. Then, of course, we Americans are a litigious bunch so that might have something to do with it too.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

there is NO WAY IN ANY COUNTRY that a 3000 lb car is safe to tow a 5000 lb trailer with a hitch point behind the rear axle at highway speeds or low speeds on more than about 2% grade either.... PERIOD


2400 us and 4800 eu...... show me proof... until then I say BS....
Not to say it's imposible but I didn't find anything in a few minutes of googling it


Even if it were magically safe it doesn't make sense for a manufacturer to rate a tow capicity that would kill a vehicle before the warranty was up.

 

[dorelse]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

there is NO WAY IN ANY COUNTRY that a 3000 lb car is safe to tow a 5000 lb trailer with a hitch point behind the rear axle at highway speeds or low speeds on more than about 2% grade either.... PERIOD


2400 us and 4800 eu...... show me proof... until then I say BS....
Not to say it's imposible but I didn't find anything in a few minutes of googling it


Even if it were magically safe it doesn't make sense for a manufacturer to rate a tow capicity that would kill a vehicle before the warranty was up.

Go to: (I think its crazy too, but...there you go)

subaru.co.uk

-> Vehicles, Forrester, Weights:

Weights (Measurements are in Kg)

Manual Automatic
Curb Weight 1465 1475
Gross train weight (GTW) 4015 3515
Gross vehicle weight 2015 2015
Nose weight 80 80
Payload 550 540
Trailer weight braked 2000 1500
Trailer weight unbraked 750 750
​

2000kg = 4400lbs... (1kg=2.2lbs)

Assuming OP is going off of the 'Braked Trailer Weight' category...

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I had a Subaru Impreza, same platform as the Forrester, and did tow a couple of boats with it frequently. They do OK, but no better than OK, and there is no way I would tow either an Arima or a C Dory (both are customers of mine), the Car just isn't big enough or designed for it. I currently have two Subaru Legacy Outbacks.

As to the safety factor and vehicle size. Its commonly said that smaller cars are safer than trucks and SUVs. But a short time ago the death rate data was released from the insurance companies and it showed that your chances of dying in an accident were directly related to vehicle size. The larger the vehicle... the less chance of dying, the largest SUVs (Suburban) had the lowest death rate, the smallest cars had the highest. The crash results we normally read about only made a difference in vehicles of the same size, the better the crash testing results, the less chance of dying. But as soon as you compared them to the next size vehicle it was size that mattered again.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I had a Subaru Impreza, same platform as the Forrester, and did tow a couple of boats with it frequently. They do OK, but no better than OK, and there is no way I would tow either an Arima or a C Dory (both are customers of mine), the Car just isn't big enough or designed for it. I currently have two Subaru Legacy Outbacks.

As to the safety factor and vehicle size. Its commonly said that smaller cars are safer than trucks and SUVs. But a short time ago the death rate data was released from the insurance companies and it showed that your chances of dying in an accident were directly related to vehicle size. The larger the vehicle... the less chance of dying, the largest SUVs (Suburban) had the lowest death rate, the smallest cars had the highest. The crash results we normally read about only made a difference in vehicles of the same size, the better the crash testing results, the less chance of dying. But as soon as you compared them to the next size vehicle it was size that mattered again.

I'll chance a crash in my heavy Chevy any day over a Honda Civic beer can...
Curb weight on my Tahoe...over 4500 pounds....a Civic about 2000 to 2400. Makes sense which one will win in a crash...

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

hmmm wild.... no mention of wdh either.... maybe manufacturers aren't held as accountable for claims in the uk and can get away with such outlandish numbers

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I had a Subaru Impreza, same platform as the Forrester, and did tow a couple of boats with it frequently. They do OK, but no better than OK, and there is no way I would tow either an Arima or a C Dory (both are customers of mine), the Car just isn't big enough or designed for it. I currently have two Subaru Legacy Outbacks.

Subaru rates the Forester to tow 2400 lbs in the US.

The 16' C-Dory will weigh in around 2000 lbs (boat, motor, trailer).

The 16' Arima will weight in around 2200 lbs (boat, motor, trailer).

Both boats fall below the tow rating of the car. The manufacturer would obviously feel that the car is capable of towing the load. Now there is potentially a windage issue, especially the C-Dory with the hardtop.

 

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I was curious about how tow vehicle curb weight relates to towing weight. Some people here believe that towing a jetski with anything short of a fullsized pickup is certain death.

From Chevy's website - A Silverado crew cab long bed has a curb weight of 6311 lbs. It's rated towing capacity is 13,000 lb. Well, there goes that "your car has to be twice as heavy as your trailer" theory.

By the way, I've heard plenty of stories that go like this: "I ran into a Civic and totaled it and the only damage to my hummer was a scrape on my bumper." Would you also be bragging if the story was more like: "I ran into a kid on a bike and killed her, and the only damage to my Hummer was teeth marks on my bumper." You shouldn't be proud of "winning" in a wreck, you should be ashamed that you were not able to avoid it.

 

[cwhite6]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

I removed my comments. After reading them, they would only cause to further an argument on here and serve no useful purpose. i hope you find a boat you can live with.

 

[clarkbre]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

Back to the original question about towing with a Subaru.

I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy Sedan 2.5L and a 2000 Lund WC16. The boat/trailer/motor weighs about 950# fully loaded with gear and fuel. I?ve towed hundreds of miles with that set up; however, I would never exceed even that tow weight. Even a 1000# load is severely noticeable behind that car. The braking is ok. I always increase my following distance and drive right at the speed limit. As far as acceleration though, that just wouldn?t happen with a heavier set up. My gas mileage drops to about 15mpg with the boat behind my car and although it tracks well, you always know the boat is back there.

For a boat, or any trailer, that?s in the 2000# range I?d consider buying a mid-size SUV. You can pick up an old Jeep Cherokee, Ford Explorer, or Chevy S10 Blazer for a dime a dozen these days. Something like that would tow an Arima with ease.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

Subaru rates the Forester to tow 2400 lbs in the US.

The 16' C-Dory will weigh in around 2000 lbs (boat, motor, trailer).

The 16' Arima will weight in around 2200 lbs (boat, motor, trailer).

Both boats fall below the tow rating of the car. The manufacturer would obviously feel that the car is capable of towing the load. Now there is potentially a windage issue, especially the C-Dory with the hardtop.

Here's the difference, I have owned Subarus, I also pull boats with them, I have also pulled Arimas, not this size C Dory though, but I could go to their shop today and do it if I wanted to. The boats I pulled were smaller than these two models and the Subaru was being pushed to the limit in power and braking. I also assume that while you've added up the possible weight of boat motor and trailer, you left out fuel, gear, coolers and all the other supplies that get stowed, plus the extra people in the car.

I also had pre-mature drive train failure on the Subaru I was towing with (50,000 miles).

The first Subaru I purchased was in 1997

This should allow me to have an opinion on towing a boat with a Subaru.


I have several trucks that I tow with and I can tell you that if I was to pull a load that was within 200 lbs of their rated capacity it would really be pushing the safety limits, not to mention the wear and tear.

Tow ratings have become a sales tool, if we up the rating we can increase sales, so they tend to get moved up to where the equipment is at its limit, resulting in a severely shortened life span.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

It is good to hear from those that have direct experience towing with Subarus.

If they aren't up to the task of towing more than 1000 lbs, then there really is no boat that has any sort of "cuddy" that will work.

The original question that was asked indicated a tow capacity of 2400 lbs and whether there were any "cuddies" that would work with that. It was also stated that the same car in Europe has a tow rating of 4800 lbs. I thought that the C-Dory and the Arima seemed to be very appropriate given the question.


Regarding tow ratings and experience:

Speaking of how much weight a truck/car can pull vs. the curb weight of the vehicle brings up a spec that is nearly impossible to find for a modern car.

GCWR = Gross combined Weight rating: That is the total amount of weight the vehicle is designed to handle. The brakes are usually the limiting factor.

GVWR = Gross vehicle weight rating: The amount of weight the axles of the vehicle can carry.

Axel Ratings: typically limited by the wheels and tires on trucks....cars are another story.

So an example:

1998 Chevy C25000: 5800 lbs curb weight, 8600 lbs GVWR, 13,500 lbs GCWR
Slide In truck camper: 2400 lbs
Race car Trailer + Car: 5000 lbs

When I had my rig fully loaded my rear axle was 100 lbs shy of the rear axel rating. GCWR was 13,200 give or take. It performed to my satisfaction and I never felt "unsafe"...panic stops, swerving, etc. were done as needed in the many trips I made with the rig.

It is my understanding that most states in the US don't require trailer brakes until you get up to about 3500 lbs. I think anything around 1500-2000 lbs should have brakes.