Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

[msunickb]

Hi everyone, first I'll introduce myself. My name is Nick and I'm from West Michigan. I am looking to buy my first boat and have done a lot of research but I thought I'd ask what you all thought. I see this is a very active board so there should be a lot of opinions out there.

I was around boats my entire childhood but it's been much less frequent in my older years and I want to change that.

So, I'm looking to purchase a used 28' to 33' cruiser. Since I'm just getting back into boating I don't want to break the bank with this first purchase so I'm looking to keep the purchase price under $40,000. I'd feel comfortable in this price range and think it will give me a good sized boat that I will (hopefully) use often for the next couple of summers and then graduate to something different.

I have looked at a lot online and have gone to a few marina's in the Grand Haven, MI area to look at boats the last couple of weekends and have a few front-runners.

There are a few things I feel are important aside from the obvious (condition of boat, engine(s), upholstery, etc.). The first is having reasonably comfortable sleeping arrangements for 4. I don't want to have to convert the dining table everytime I have more than just myself and my girlfriend on the boat. Second, and this probably shouldn't be important, but looks. I have looked at a lot of late 80's, early 90's boats that have a lot of funky colors and materials. I figure if I'm going to be on the boat all summer I should like how it looks, right?! I also would like to be able to use it to occasionally take weekend trips. I don't see it happening much but I could see a couple times a summer going 100 miles round-trip for the weekend.

Anyway, here's the one I've currently got on the top of my list. I would be offering less than the list price but it's in the ballpark.

1995 Sea Ray Sundancer, 30 ft. - It has a twin inboards, fore and aft cabins and a nice sized galley. I went out and toured the boat today and really like it for the price.

Edit: Linkn to boat: http://www.boatwizardwebsolutions.c...se&wuom=126&incnt=108&luom=126&searchtype=buy

I know I need a marine survey done and definitely want the engine compression checked on whatever boat I end up buying.

What are your thoughts? Is it a good boat? Are there other brands and models I should stay away from or be attracted to?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

Nick

BTW: The boat will be slipped in Grand Haven, MI so I don't need to worry about towing it around.

 

[dbric36]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Opps it a 300 Da

 

[msunickb]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Opps it a 300 Da

Oh sorry about that. I don't know a ton about either. Is is being a 300 DA a bad thing?

 

[oops!]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

no its not a bad thing at all.

the big rays are fantastic boats and have very loyal owners.
the rays typically have a higher resale than others.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Ditto what oops said. Can't go too far wrong buying a Sea Ray in good condition. They're popular boats. Twin 5.7's should be a good match for that boat. It's straight inboard so will be simplest of the various drive types to maintain, though I'm not familiar with v-drives. Good idea to have a full survey and mechanical inspection done, and I see that's in your plan too. Very, very important for any boat you consider.

I'm sure you've crunched all the numbers... can you afford to operate and maintain it? 30', twin engines.. it's a lot of boat.

How long have you been looking? Sea Ray isn't the only good option out there, and the boat market is pretty soft.

I wish you luck, keep us posted and ask questions!

 

[ziggy]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

wow, that sure is a big boat for a first boat. hope your gonna take some boating classes.
i did us power squadron. took quite a few classes through them and learned a lot. at the very least, found out what i didn't know. which was a lot. and my background is similar to yours. boated when i was a kid, then a lapse of time before getting back into it.. a boat that size would sure intimidate me even today. and i've been back into boating for at least the last 10 years and took classes through advanced piloting. good luck in finding your right for you boat and be safe...

 

[JoLin]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Ziggy, I hear you about that being an awfully big boat for a first-timer, and I wouldn't (didn't) do it.

When I was looking to replace my 21' outboard with a 'cabin' boat, I looked at a few in the 28' range. I was (still am) a relatively new boater, and the view from the helm was just too darned intimidating for me. I went smaller and don't really regret it (much), but after a few times out I got used to the 24' and kinda wished I'd had bigger stones when we were shopping. On the plus side, the C-C really is big enough for the 2 of us (for now ) and I can trailer and store it pretty easily.

Two friends of mine bought "big" boats as their first- one a 27' Maxum and the other a 30' Bayliner. Ya know, they worked it out, though both also damaged their boats to the tune of a couple thousand dollars within the first few trips.

To the OP- consider hiring an experienced 'captain' to teach you to handle it. I should've recommended that first thing. If the size of the boat doesn't scare the bejeezus out of you, you'll learn it.

 

[arks]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Good advice here, Nick.
I gotta agree that's a lot of boat for a first-timer.
From my experience (35 years boating) the vast majority of first-time big boat owners end up not enjoying boats because of a bad experience. Often they become intimidated by their own boat and it sits at the dock not used.
While hiring a Captain for training is a great idea (and important IMO), they will not be able to show you all the scenarios that you'll encounter with the boat. Wind and current both have profound effects on how a boat moves (even a small one), and you've got to know how to use and counteract them. Smaller boats have an advantage around the docks because if you screw something up, a person can 'usually' fend off to avoid any damage. Not so with large boats.
You asked for opinions, so here's mine- Buy a smaller boat first. Maybe a 20'- 24' cuddy cabin with a single engine. Spend as much time as you can learning how to operate her- in all conditions- before going bigger. I boated for over 25 years before going to a 34' twin-engine.

Bottom line, boating is a wonderful hobby and can be a lot of fun but, just like golf or any other sport, you've got to invest more than money to make it so.

 

[msunickb]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm not worried about the size of the boat at all. Although I've never owned a boat I have had many experiences with larger boats. I even had the opportunity to captain a 54' Sea Ray last summer. I'm sure I'll make my mistakes but overall I think I SHOULD be ok. ;-) All of my childhood boating was on Lake Huron (SW Upper Peninsula) so I have experience on the great lakes as well.

As far as the money goes...there's no doubt it'll eat at the checkbook. I've crunched the numbers and don't forsee any problems as long as something crazy like a blown engine doesn't occur. Then it'll have to eat at the savings account which I would like to avoid if possible.

Are there other specific makes/models I should keep an eye out for as I go to the various marinas to see their offerings?

Thanks again for all the info. I will definitely keep you posted.

Nick

 

[mphy98]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Famous last words "I think I should be OK" Please take the proper boating courses. The great lakes are know to be more treacherous than the oceans. I know this for a fact as my grandfather was a commercial fisherman with a 40' boat set up for trapnets up the the UP by Escanaba. Many times the lake was calm as glass when we went out, and within hours it turned to a nasty lady. It was only my grandfathers knowledge of the lake and his boat did we finish the job and get home safely.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm not worried about the size of the boat at all. Although I've never owned a boat I have had many experiences with larger boats. I even had the opportunity to captain a 54' Sea Ray last summer. I'm sure I'll make my mistakes but overall I think I SHOULD be ok. ;-) All of my childhood boating was on Lake Huron (SW Upper Peninsula) so I have experience on the great lakes as well.

As far as the money goes...there's no doubt it'll eat at the checkbook. I've crunched the numbers and don't forsee any problems as long as something crazy like a blown engine doesn't occur. Then it'll have to eat at the savings account which I would like to avoid if possible.

Are there other specific makes/models I should keep an eye out for as I go to the various marinas to see their offerings?

Thanks again for all the info. I will definitely keep you posted.

Nick

You seem to have your head screwed on straight (if you can call boat ownership 'sane')

As for other makes, there are many. Carver, Four Winns, Wellcraft, Regal to name just a few. You'll find that in boats of that age (10 years or more), the condition of the boat becomes more important than the brand. Many, many express cruisers out there, most follow the same general theme, and have the same power. Twin 5.7 liter Mercruisers and Volvos have got to be the most common thing out there in that size boat.

Just saying that if you just started looking, you might want to spend a little more time at it. That Sea Ray seems to be priced OK if it's in really good condition, but it isn't a huge bargain.. Chances are it'll be there for awhile, so look around a little.

Good luck to you (I'm drooling)

 

[msunickb]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

I understand.

I don't plan any trips on the "big water" for the first year or two as I know I'll need time to beat the rust off. We have two trips we want to make this summer...Grand Haven to Holland for the weekend and Grand Haven to Saugatuck also for the weekend. We'll be staying in the marina in both cases. This way we'll be near shore.

Honestly the boat I'm looking at will be used much like a cabin 80% of the time. Me, my girlfriend and a couple friends docked, at the marina, hanging out in Grand Haven.

 

[rbh]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Oh sorry about that. I don't know a ton about either. Is is being a 300 DA a bad thing?

D A = sundancer, we have a 270da (27 foot, 10 on the beam) it is an older 1985 and we like it, this year we plan on installing a small genset, just to make things a little more comfortable. (ICE, batteries charged, TV, toast, drip coffee in the morning ETC) you get the point.

 

[Northern Lights]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Many choices in types of boats, and it is a buyers market right now. Making the right decision now will mean many years of happy boating. The wrong decision will mean trying to buy what you should have bought the 1st time, but now you have a boat to sell or trade in. A 30' boat for 4 people on a weekend is not IMO to large. Type of boat and condition is more important than brand. Express cruiser or fly bridge, I believe the fly bridge from a operating standpoint is much easier in docking manuvers, has more usable space. The express is a faster boat in most cases so if your going to pull a tube or ski may be the best choice. Type of power is another important consideration, gas or diesel. When the economy improves fuel will be back at $5.00 per gallon or more, diesel being more efficent gives you more bang for the buck. You pay a premium for diesel but you recoup that when you sell. Gas power is much more popular in the 30' range of boats, and in the case of a blown motor much cheaper to rebuild or repower. Good luck in your decision, lots off boats out there for sale, do not over pay, some people think their boats are still worth what they were in 2007 and that just not true. One other thing I've had both types and once you pilot a fly bridge you won't want to go back to a express type.

 

[msunickb]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Thanks for the info!

I look a a fly bridge and think it looks like it would be so awkward to captain...maybe I'll have to test one out. I don't know anyone that has one so I'll have to hunt a bit.

After actually getting in and feeling what different boats in that size range are like inside there's no way I could get something smaller than a 30' for 4 people to regularly stay weekends on it...even if just at a marina. The cabin area on a couple 26 to 28' boats I looked at seemed quite cramped. Although the length isn't significantly different I'm learning the beam combined with the extra length makes an incredible difference.

Nick

 

[dockwrecker]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

I hear exactly what you're saying about cramped cabins. My Carver, while being a very nice size for trailering and handling, is comfy for two even though it sleeps 4. I'm looking larger also and what's got my eye right now is a 30' Chaparral. Well built, good layout and hold their value well.

90 Carver Montego 21' "Suspicious Behavior"

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

a flying bridge is WONDERFUL with one exception..... when/if you need to dock without help (in bad conditions) you need to be very good and fast on your feet. It takes just a few extra seconds to get from the helm to the mooring lines but that's too long if there is a mistake or high winds...... with a boat that size you should have someone to secure it before you leave the helm but I have been on my own with my "little" carver quite often and even with that one there is no room for error.

 

[arks]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

......and that's why any PROPER flybridge boat needs a lower helm!
I go out solo quite often and when docking in difficult conditions I usually use the lower station. The visibility from down there isn't quite as good but I can be at either end of the boat in 5 seconds- and NOT fall down the ladder.

 

[dbric36]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

Oh sorry about that. I don't know a ton about either. Is is being a 300 DA a bad thing?

No I thought it was a 290. For a 290 the price was kind of high.

 

[werthert]

Re: Looking for opinions/suggestions regarding used cruisers.

I agree with OP not to be intimidated by size. My first is (still is) Bayliner 3055. I just read alot, took some classes online, talked to the folks at the dock, went out a few times with the local marine mechanic, etc.
Ask a buttload of questions.

The hardest part was getting in the slip the first few times. Very nervous. But you know what? just go slow. go real slow, like as slow as you can make her go.

It's a boat, not a space rocket. You can figure it out. So long as you realize there is no rush, you'll be fine.