Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

[amanphoto]

Ok, I need trim tabs. I need to be able to adjust them my self. I have some questions and I would like some unbiased answers.

1. electric vs hydraulic performance? I know the difference. Hydraulic tabs are a little more expensive and more durable being that most of the working parts are inside. Electric are a little easier to install. My question is what is the reaction time up and down?

2. Single cylinder vs double. I know the more cylinders you have, the more down word pressure you have. But will the double cylinders react faster?

3. Size of the tab (plate). Is it better to be wider or longer. Surface area is surface area. I have lots of room on the transom. Will my boat react faster with a wider tab or with a longer tab?

4. Plastic tab vs Stainless ?

5. Bent edges on tabs. Will the bent edges on the tabs effect my tracking or produce more drag? How will they effect my cornering?

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

 

[SeanMcl]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Let me Google that for you

 

[amanphoto]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

I did google that. I keep getting biased answers from manufactures.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Well...... let's break it down a bit.

Why tabs? For planing? Control? High speeds?

Length of boat?

Weight?

Trailer the boat or leave it docked?

I would weigh all those factors and ask the people that use them here. I do know of many that use the non-powered ones and are happy.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

1. Reaction time is irreverent. The tabs react faster than the hull does. Adjust, wait for hulls reaction. Adjust, wait. Nothing but a marketing ploy

2. The cylinders are all feed off the same hydraulic unit. Double cylinders react at the same speed as a single cylinder setup.

3. Surface area is not surface area. The further back you go the more leverage you can get using the same surface area. That's why you can use a narrower plan if you increase the depth, i.e. 12? x 12? instead of 9" x 18". I have scuppers, speed sensors, etc. on my transom so I went with the 12? x 12? tabs. I have no problem burying the bow on a #5K boat.

4. Plastic tabs?

5. Bent tabs will give more lift per unit area. Your prop will blow out in a turn long before the edge of the tabs give you any problems. I have flats tabs

FWIW: I'm running Bennetts

 

[amanphoto]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Boat length - 23'
Boat Width - 8'
Boat Weight - 4K #

Trailer Boat (bunks on trailer, lots of room on trailer back end for tabs)

Want a good whole shot for skiing and tubing. I know its a big boat. But we are not performance skiing. Just recreational boating.

When I hit the throttle, I want tabs to react accordingly. When I come up to plan, I want them to come up quickly.

 

[QC]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

I have had two boats with Hydraulic tabs and use them as you intend to do. Reaction time has never been a real concern. The biggest issue with water sports is keeping your head on a lot of things at once, which may be an argument for SmartTabs, but for me the benefits of helm adjustable seriously outweigh this one issue.

I use a K-plane style tab on my current boat with the same hydraulics as Bennett. Boat weight and size are similar. I have never wished I had less surface of the tab. I have never wished I didn't have tabs, and I have never wished they weren't adjustable . . .

I put them almost full down to get a skier, tube or wakeboarder going, and then just hold the tab switches to bring them both up while the boat settles into the proper speed. The time it takes for the tabs to retract, and the boat and me settling into the correct speed, are almost ideal and synchronized. I use the slight rooster (tab created and it looks more like a fast inboard's wake with tabs deployed) in the middle of the wake as my visual guide, when the rooster just starts to disappear I am usually at the correct setting for the flattest wake and the best handling of the boat. this position varies with speed. For wakeboarders I play with trim, speed and tabs to create the speed and wake their skill and desires prescribe.

BTW, the rooster "feature" can be used to soak unsuspecting boarders and tubers, just go full tab for a second or two . . . Not high enough to mess with most skiers at speed, but then I haven't really tried

Oh, oh, the main benefit to electric like Lencos, is a much easier install. All else seems to favor Hydraulic.

 

[QC]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

One last point . . . and this is not meant to be argumentative, but I have been posting about the benefits of Helm Adjustable Trim Tabs since I joined, and this is within a SmartTabs position of strength. I like SmartTabs and I believe very strongly that for some boats (smaller) and some operators, they are the perfect choice. I suggest these, and have installed them, to people that I refer to as more Point and Shoot types.

With that said . . . has anyone else, other than dingbat and Boatist, ever noticed that the people that don't recommend Helm Adjustable tabs have never owned them? Just a thought . . .

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

If you get adjustable, set it up so the buttons are near the throttle so you can operate both at once.

 

[skargo]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Boat length - 23'
Boat Width - 8'
Boat Weight - 4K #

Trailer Boat (bunks on trailer, lots of room on trailer back end for tabs)

Want a good whole shot for skiing and tubing. I know its a big boat. But we are not performance skiing. Just recreational boating.

When I hit the throttle, I want tabs to react accordingly. When I come up to plan, I want them to come up quickly.

I have Stainless Bennett tabs with dual rams. My boat is 4500# dry and it planes like nobodies business, in the blink of an eye.
I love them, the PO put them on. He told he he had single rams at first, but was concerned with strength, that's why he went with the double rams. I'm sure they are no faster or slower than a single ram.

 

[Alumarine]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Semi-Hijack.

When you use trim tabs do you usually keep the drive trimmed all the way in and do all the trimming with the tabs?

Just wondering how to use them properly.

 

[skargo]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Semi-Hijack.

When you use trim tabs do you usually keep the drive trimmed all the way in and do all the trimming with the tabs?

Just wondering how to use them properly.

Nope, use the drive AND the tabs to get to your sweet spot.

 

[QC]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Yep ^^^^^ use all of the tools at your disposal. Every combination of tab(s), trim, load and speed is unique. Close to infinitely adjustable . . .

 

[ovrrdrive]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Another happy Bennett user here. When I was shopping it seemed that the Bennett reps were more resposive and stood behind the product a little better. Since then I have seen lenco stand up a few times but not like tabman and Bennett in general. It's a good product.

Btw, wider is better than longer and get the biggest tab you can reasonably fit back there. Trust me you won't regret it. I got the next size larger tab than Bennett recommended for my size boat and as mentioned above I have never wished I had a smaller tab on the boat. And when the going gets tough and I have the tabs all the way down, they have always been just enough.

I got a set of the Bennett M-120's on my boat that are the "batwing" design with the bent down corners and don't notice any negative effects when cornering. If anything by being able to drop the nose a little it still corners better than it did before Iput tabs on the boat.

All in all I'd say tabs were the best money I have spent on the boat so far but I'll admit that my boat always rode really high in front and the tabs corrected that and gave me so many more options when running in rough water. I love them.


I can't say anything bad about Lenco, but I just felt like the Bennett product was better.

 

[QC]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Btw, wider is better than longer

I kinda bet this has to do with the top speed of the boat. Take a look at the transom of any ocean racer . . .

 

[skargo]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

I guess mine are the "non-batwing" design?

 

[dingbat]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

I kinda bet this has to do with the top speed of the boat. Take a look at the transom of any ocean racer . . .

From another forum.

Simply put, bigger is better and wider is best if you have the room. Let me explain;

The lift a Trim Tab can generate is the function of three components, 1. The speed of the water-flow passing over the surface of the Trim Plane. 2. The angle the Trim Tab is deflected. (This can not be much more than 20 degrees, because after that it generates too much drag). And 3. The size of the surface area of a Trim Tab.

Since Trim Tabs are adjustable, you can “dial in” the amount of lift you need so having a Trim Tab that can create a lot of lift can be very beneficial. It is sort of like choosing horsepower when you get a boat, as long as you are prudent in its use going with the bigger size is best.

It is interesting to note that a larger Trim Tab will need to be deflected less then a smaller Trim Tab to create the same amount of lift. This means that the larger Trim Tab will be more efficient al lower speeds (when you need tabs the most in rougher stuff) and will in fact create less drag. So there is really no downside to fitting a Trim Tab that is the largest in a Trim Tab manufactures sizing guidelines.

As far as wider versus longer, a Trim Tab that is longer against the hull (span) is more efficient than one that is longer fore to aft (chord). This is because more water pressure escapes out the sides of the Tim Planes in relation to there surface area on a Tab with a large chord measurement. For example if you can fit a 12 x 9 it is a bit more efficient than the 12 x 12 (disregarding the difference in surface area). Another advantage with the 9” chord Trim Tabs is that they may be “upgraded” to 12” chord Tabs by simply replacing the Trim Plans, all the mounting hardware will remain the same.

However, in certain applications the 12" chord may be more effective: Boats with twin outboards or twin I/Os, or boats with transom configurations that limit trim tab span can use 12" chord tabs to achieve maximum lift in minimum area. Slower boats (less than 15 mph), semi-displacement hulls, boats over 50 feet, outboards on brackets, or boats with any other feature that increases the need for lift aft benefit from the 12" chord.

By the way the long chord Tabs you see on offshore racing boats are designed to operate a much higher speeds and combined with the way they are mounted on transoms offer much different results then what the “average” boat needs.

You can also increase the lift of a Trim Plane by folding the sides down to capture some water pressure that would normally escape out the sides and channel it aft to create additional lift. We do that on some Tabs designed to fit in smaller areas.

Looking at thongtjs boat’s specs I would suggest that he might want to consider 18 x 9 at least, if not larger. Here is a link to our sizing page http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/size1.htm this will be about the same for other manufactures.

We talk to lots of people who have Trim Tabs, we often come to the conclusion that installing larger Trim Tabs on their boats will really increase their effectiveness. I can not remember ever talking with someone who felt that their Tabs were too big.

I hope this helps.

Tom
Bennett Marine

 

[Expidia]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

I have had two boats with Hydraulic tabs and use them as you intend to do. Reaction time has never been a real concern. The biggest issue with water sports is keeping your head on a lot of things at once, which may be an argument for SmartTabs, but for me the benefits of helm adjustable seriously outweigh this one issue.

I use a K-plane style tab on my current boat with the same hydraulics as Bennett. Boat weight and size are similar. I have never wished I had less surface of the tab. I have never wished I didn't have tabs, and I have never wished they weren't adjustable . . .

I put them almost full down to get a skier, tube or wakeboarder going, and then just hold the tab switches to bring them both up while the boat settles into the proper speed. The time it takes for the tabs to retract, and the boat and me settling into the correct speed, are almost ideal and synchronized. I use the slight rooster (tab created and it looks more like a fast inboard's wake with tabs deployed) in the middle of the wake as my visual guide, when the rooster just starts to disappear I am usually at the correct setting for the flattest wake and the best handling of the boat. this position varies with speed. For wakeboarders I play with trim, speed and tabs to create the speed and wake their skill and desires prescribe.

BTW, the rooster "feature" can be used to soak unsuspecting boarders and tubers, just go full tab for a second or two . . . Not high enough to mess with most skiers at speed, but then I haven't really tried

Oh, oh, the main benefit to electric like Lencos, is a much easier install. All else seems to favor Hydraulic.

QC, that is a real sweet color combo if that pic is your rig.

I personally would not go with smart tabs because once the boat is planing they are out of the water and you lose the ability to adjust the boat from side to side to level if you have a few people on board.

For placement the instructions are pretty explicit that come with the tab set. I would only move them if the ideal location was blocked by something on the transom. Which ever brand one chooses they can download the instructions before they buy them for where each manufacturer recommends you mount their design.

 

[QC]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

QC, that is a real sweet color combo if that pic is your rig.

Yes, that's my mistress . . . Thanks, she's a real sweetheart, and despite the flash a very good family boat. Those are cheapo K-plane look a-likes. They are from Eddie Marine and have the long look and color from anodized plates, but they are not the self contained mega-buck real ocean racer type. They were the first mod I made to the boat and although she "didn't need them" as many people say about their boats, I consider helm adjustable tabs as required on all V-hulls.

dingbat,

I guess that confirms my assumption . . .

 

[amanphoto]

Re: Trim Tabs - electric vs hydraulic and other questions.

Another question....

When its rough? What do you do with your tabs when its rough?