5HP Briggs and Stratton

[mrcrabs]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Hey Trotter, seafoam is great stuff but the description you give concerning carbon build up can cause all kinds of poor running situations that even sea foam at 9$ a can will not clean up, I have spent allot of time decarbing some tight penny pincher's gummed up mess, Evinrude makes a product called Johnson engine tuner, you spray it through the carb while running in a barrel about 1/3 to 1/2 trottle...she will blow chunks buddy...then keep a little seafoam in it with every tank. I don't seem to find it at the Iboats store but this is it and it does the sh!TZ garonteed... maybe somebody can point to the Iboats page that has it, and follow the instructions on the can.

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Evinrude-Engine-Tune-Up-777185/dp/B001KYJAL0

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

I use both products, what I'm trying to do with the S/F is possibly stop the floats from sticking (if they are), so it needs to be in the fuel, not just sprayed into the carb throat.

S/F isn't a substitute for actually cleaning the carb, but if its on the edge, and sticking occasionally, then it can work. It will also help remove the gunk from exhaust housing.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

ondarvr I agree with you completely, I was just giving my 2cents on cleaning method's, looking back I see that the merc came from a pawn shop and probably set for awhile with gas in the carb and hes probably got some bad rubber so trotter really needs to rebuild his carb & replace his fuel lines to get it right and then decarb it...make it 4cents Oh what the heck make it a nickel

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton (reply edited)

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton (reply edited)

First off a thanks to 'ondarvr' for setting me straight on the peculiarities of the engine in question! The closest I've ever came to one is using an impeller from a late 9.8 as a substitute for the criminally expensive Eska impeller.

Trotter I think your feet are trodding the right path now concerning a severe over-rich condition. Both 'ondarvr' & 'mrcrabs' have offered excellent suggestions worthy of entertaining. However from what you had to say in your last post I suspect that a carb rebuild should be the first thing on your agenda. Before you claim mechanical idiocy allow me to assure you that if I can do it then it should be a cinch for a normal human animal. The only caveat I would offer is to have a shop manual on hand to follow before you start and take LOTS of notes and digital pics at every step of the dis-assembly process so you don't have to depend on memory in case you encounter something that will consume enough time to forget the steps while you search for parts.
The old saw "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" was never more true than in the case of fuel delivery systems on small engines. So plan on using lots of carb cleaner or lacquer thinner and high pressure air. Running metal objects through jet passages is a big 'no-no'. Doing so can change a jet size to the point of never being able to properly adjust a carb. You can buy a gallon can of carb cleaner for @ $20 at any decent auto parts store. A couple of hours of soaking should break up any detritus in the carb and a water rinse followed by blowing out all jets and passages with high pressure air should make it as good as new. (and you can re-use that gallon of cleaner indefinitely!) If in doubt you can also use a spray can of pressurized carb cleaner after the soak.
Modern fuels that incorporate alcohol are particularly hard on carbs. It seems to leave far more solid residues behind after drying out than does 'real' gasoline. If you have someone nearby that sells 'real' gas you can almost eliminate future problems by using it.
My own passion regarding outboards is reviving antiques and classics so I've had to clean fuel systems far more mistreated than your motor. The methods detailed above have never failed me with carbs that may have been stored away with fuel in them for 50 years or more. Redoing your carb should be a snap! And learning new things always provides an ego boost.

Edit: Check your PMs.

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Update:

I put new plugs in and running seafoam that I poured into the gas tank. It wasn't too clear on how much to put in the tank so I only put in 3oz in my 3 gallon tank. Will let it run for a while and report back.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Read the sticky at the top of the forum page. you can dump the whole bottle in 1 gallon of pre-mix and run it, this is how you de-carb the motor with it. You don't need to run it long, just enough to get the mix inside and do it's job.

1 oz in a gallon won't do much short term.

You can also fill the clear canister on the carb that you talked about watching when you squeezed the bulb with S/F and run it.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Use this link.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158076

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Oops, I forgot to look for that thread. After reading it I dumped the whole bottle into the tank. Thanks for posting the link.

I have to admit the exhaust was getting extremely obnoxious even after just putting the 3oz. in. Letting it run for a few more minutes.

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Okay, I ran the motor 3 times with the seafoam in the gas tank. Basically, it definitely appears that the exhaust has diminished somewhat. I could see a less dense white plume coming out of the exhaust port. And while running it the first time the exhaust smoke was very strong and got less with each run but there's still a noticeable amount to where it's hard to stand next to it while it's running.

I think I need a better understanding of how much smoke and exhaust I should be noticing. I figure it should be pretty much like an automobile exhaust where you can smell it if you're right on it, but not necessarily be able to see it. If I'm off on my assumption please correct me.

The other thing I find troubling is how I'm able to start the motor without using the choke. It sat about 12 hours since this morning when I fire it up last and I was still able to do 2 pulls on the cord without the choke and start it up.

The other thing I'm wondering is about the exhaust port itself. This is technically my 2nd outboard but it's a first in trying to learn how to work this thing. My friend has a boat and he told me how his outboard exhausts into the water so I pictured exhaust jets basically in the water. So I was a little confused when I saw mine exhausting from a jet between on the shaft area just below the cowl. I was thinking to myself how nice it would be if there was a tube that ran from that hole directly into the water, but again I'm not experienced with outboards so I don't know.

It certainly seems to me that at this point the motor is still running rich.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Are you running it in the lake, a barrel or on a hose?

Did you take the boat for a spin, or are you just sitting still?

When you're moving the exhaust will exit through the prop, the two holes on the back of the motor are for when you're sitting still, they reduce the back pressure so the motor will run well when not moving.

The exhaust maybe noticeable, not a cloud, but much more than car.

On the side of the motor there should be a pee stream, is it flowing well?

Starting the motor without the choke doesn't necessarily mean there's an issue, but it may be a sign.

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

I've been running the motor in my tank. The pee stream is nice and strong and fairly warm to the touch. When it's just sitting in the tank there's a bit of smoke coming out of the back of the motor. When I give it throttle a steady stream of white smoke comes out of the holes in the back of the motor. I know that turning the throttle up in the tank and actually using it in a lake are two different things. But doesn't turning the throttle up in the tank simulate movement in a lake? I can see how the exhaust coming from the back of the motor would be blown off by the wind from traveling, but I don't know if that's how they're actually supposed to run and I suppose that's where my question is.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

there under much! more of a load behind a man and a boat, running in a test tank blows a hole in the water so to speak

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Depending on the tank and the air flow, it can be possible for it to not run correctly, it can suck in exhaust and do odd things.

The warm pee stream is OK.

The white smoke, which is normally steam, would be bad, smoke is typically bueish or a little black.

Is there any way you can post a pic?

Does it idle OK now?

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Since I've replaced the plugs and run a little seafoam through it does idle a bit smoother. It gyrates a bit when running at low idle but it's definitely not perfectly smooth. Almost like how an automobile would idle if it had a miss in the engine.

I'll post a pic in the morning when there's day light. I don't have good outside lighting to do it at night. I wonder why I haven't posted one earlier. A pic is worth a thousand words!

Actually, I'll try to post a video too of it running. That will take a bit longer but I think I can get it up tomorrow.

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

I have a link to a video I made of my outboard running. I'm sorry it's on Facebook it's the only way I could upload the video since my job blocks Youtube.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=405140583406

The audio cuts in and out so the motor doesn't really sound like it does in the video. It's more steady but you can see it vibrating while idling and see that it's a little rough.

The white smoke is not from the water it's actually exhaust and I can say that definitively because it almost made me pass out it was so noxious. The start of the video it's running at high idle, towards the end it's running at low idle. This is pretty much how it looked before I put seafoam in the gas tank.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.


Edit: A friend of mine suggested that I put more gas in the tank to lean the mixture out a bit. I'm a bit afraid to do that because I know what can happen if there isn't enough 2 cycle oil in the gas. I think I'll put .25 gallon more of gas in the tank and give it a go.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

It can't be viewed, it says its because its been removed or due to privacy settings.



Don't mess with the gas to oil ratio, leave it at 50:1.

 

[Trotter]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Gosh I'm sorry. I think I fixed the privacy settings and made it so it can be viewed by anyone. I don't use Facebook pretty much really. If you still can't view it I'll wait until I get home to post it on Youtube. Thanks!

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=405140583406

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

That looked more like blue smoke than white, at least in the vid.

With the sound cutting out like that its hard to hear just how smooth its running and the video was was from fairly close up, so its hard to see it shake.

Have you put it in gear in the tank?

As you can see, the cloud around the motor is fairly thick, if the motor sucks in those fumes it will run poorly and create more smoke, which will make it run worse and create more smoke, which will............

The idle can be turned way down on these motors, far below where they actually idle smooth, but it can be adjusted up by the knob on the front (same as primer knob).


Have you pushed the Primer knob all the way in? It has three positions, in, out and one half way between these. It should be pushed all the way in when running.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

Ok, once an engine has be ran poorly for long periods of time in the test tanks w/cheap oil and faulty mix ratio's and then set around waiting for it's next chance to be run poorly in a test tank they gum up severly with carbon and unburnt oil, my experiance with test tank queens is always the same, they mis and sput and smoke, that outboard looks, due to the smoke to be running real rich, needs carb cleaned or rebuilt and then a can of Johnson engine tuner used to really clean it out. the carbon and unburnt oil build up to the point that the rings stick and the carbon itself soaks up fuel staying wet and even causing misfires...and then get it behind a boat and run the **** out it....

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 5HP Briggs and Stratton

You said at the start of the vid its running at high speed....you can't run these motors at high speed unless its in gear, the best you can get is a high idle by turning the knob C/W.