Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

[monk-monk]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

What does the "csm" stand for and where does one get the epoxy stuff from west epoxy systems...thanks!

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

CSM is the acronym for 'Chopped Stranded Mat' - the fiberglass mat that looks as if 1' pieces of individual pieces of glass were blown onto into a sheet form creating a diversity of cross hatching of the strands of glass across the sheet.

West System epoxy is only offered by select vendors across any given geographical location. You can go to their website, http://www.westsystem.com/ss/request free literature packet, which includes a list of all the suppliers of this brand across North America as well as Canada.

Hope this helps,

Chris

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

arrrrgh ....dont have the time to answer it all...

thinner cloth than 17 oz....means 13 oz.

the 25 oz cloth...(1708) was to match the hull thickness.

we need to design you a new layup schedule with the epoxy only.

if ondarvr is on and sees this he can suggest one for you....mark 42?...jonesg?

ill be back on tonight chris...if no one has helped you ill give you a new schedule.....but just dont use csm ....and you cant use the thicker products on the seterior of the hull or you will have a permanant "bump" there that cannot be sanded out.

if you run into problems ...call me later

Oops by all means don't feel obligated to respond to any inquiry. I must apologize for directing the replies towards you with "oops" in the reply. I just noticed that you were really the only one replying so i figured i would ask.

If you don't have the time i certainly understand how that goes, so don't worry or feel obligated.

Thanks for all you have done thus far oops, for that i am grateful. take care buddy

Chris

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Oops hey buddy, i figured you might have gotten busy or else been diverted on energies of higher priority. I know it doesn't look like i know what i am doing, wow, after that entire shotgun hole episode.

Now after i look back, i continually think to myself, what an idiot? I should've known better than to do this, i was calling myself getting beyond such deep cracks in an area about the size of a football.

But, now i know i could've fixed this area without cutting it out. IDIOT!!!

Anyway, i have to repair it now for sure, and i have a good working knowledge of fiberglass just maybe not all of the pertinetn details needed for this job. I want to ensure that i get a great bond and that the layers are layered correctly without any air pockets.

Is there anyway Oops, that you might could provide the list of weighted material you would advise on the inside of this hole to include the amount of layers?

Then how many would you provide on the exterior? I was thinking in the ballpark of 6-8 layers underneath with each layer overlapping 1/2" larger than the layer prior?

Then the set time between several layers?

How far must i extend out in the inside for this hole that meaures up to 14" long for a good bond for the duration of the life of the boat?

Thanks for all of your help and your time Oops that you have been providing up to this time, for that i am greatly appreciative?

Do you duck hunt Oops? If you do i might could make you a duck call as a token of appreciation for all of your help? quackycalls.com

Thanks, Chris

 

[oops!]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

you are using epoxy....so that changes the layup schedule.....

DO NOT USE CHOPPED STRAND MATT.

go find yourself some 17oz bi ax cloth. this is the 1708 material without the 8 oz of csm backing it.

use three layers actually in the hole.

then successive layers over it till you build out a good surrounding area holding the inside patch.

from the outside ......one layer of the 17 cloth till you are just under the dished area you made by feathering the hole.

then add the 6 oz finishing cloth (see the hull ext thread)...till you are built over the hole and allmost flat with the glass surface.

sand and paint.

you can do three layers at a time....wait till it comes off the back end of the cure cycle...(till the heat drops a bit then you can add another three layers.

sorry about my inconsistent posting.....but ive temporarily lost mt internet connection till july 20 when they install a new one.

but you have my number.....you can call anytime.

cheers
oops

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Once the initial freak out session has passed and you've gotten your hands a little dirty with this, you'll look back at the beginning of this thread and probably give yourself a good face palm Anything is repairable, even if you end up rebuilding the whole damn boat!

In this case, you've gotten a great amount of info to work from, you just need to get familiarized with the whole process. Tis like any new thing....a little scary until you start to learn the ropes. Once you get comfortable, then next thing you know, you'll be the one posting replies to questions here!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Hello m8..

Tips, advice, your concerns are welcomed.

Chris

Make and model please.

#1. Tip = Leave the holes on the bottom of boats to Pros ...

#2. advice = If you ignore rule #1 then by all means research..research..and more important.. RESEARCH ! This is not a cosmetic repair and I for one would take this repair in the utmost Serious manor.

#3. Concern = Your " router " cut is in my opinion kinda close to your stringer for repair localized in that compartment. I can guess that the repair is directly in line with your trailer bunks...short repairs at stringer locations bouncing down the road could be a possible failure point in the future.

IMHO.. use Vinyl Ester Resin and 1708 and 1.5 oz mat ( from the looks of things you have about 3/8" - 1/2" thickness and will require some serious grinding/beveling and lams ).

YD.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Yes i do have my work cut out for me. I plan on using successive layers of 1708 biaxial cloth and west systems epoxy resins to repair this area.

I will be feathering the edges of this hole from both sides. Soon i will be removing the deck on the inside to access the inward area of the hole.

What would be a good grit on an orbital sander to get this baby started towards the feathering process?

Second what is the finishing cloth that oops had made reference to and what type would be compatible with the epoxy resins and with the usage of 1708 biaxial cloth?

Third, i am planning on placing 3 layers on the inside and then place a structural integration in this area consisting of two triangular pieces of 2" material and glass it all in to the stringer while i am in there.

Would you suggest waiting until those three layers have completely cured or would you wait near the end of the cure out process and integrate the structural members mentioned?

Also, what would be a good release agent to utilize over a piece of plywood to prevent the cloth from sagging downwards through this hole during the layup process?

Thanks guys, Chris

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Would any of you guys following this thread here have enough 1708 biaxial cloth that i could purchase from you to repair this area?

and also some finishing cloth as well?

i haven't been able to find much online to purchase that didn't require buying enough to cover a football field, (huge rolls, woow)

Just let me know, i will send you a money order, Chris

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

www.uscomposites.com

You can buy 1 yard or 1,000
Very reasonably priced.
Glad you are finally going to do it right!

I'm just sayin...

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Still attempting to get someone to chime in on post #28 in order to obtain a little more clarity there.

Thanks guys, Chris

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Yes i do have my work cut out for me. I plan on using successive layers of 1708 biaxial cloth and west systems epoxy resins to repair this area.

I will be feathering the edges of this hole from both sides. Soon i will be removing the deck on the inside to access the inward area of the hole.

What would be a good grit on an orbital sander to get this baby started towards the feathering process?

Second what is the finishing cloth that oops had made reference to and what type would be compatible with the epoxy resins and with the usage of 1708 biaxial cloth?

Third, i am planning on placing 3 layers on the inside and then place a structural integration in this area consisting of two triangular pieces of 2" material and glass it all in to the stringer while i am in there.

Would you suggest waiting until those three layers have completely cured or would you wait near the end of the cure out process and integrate the structural members mentioned?

Also, what would be a good release agent to utilize over a piece of plywood to prevent the cloth from sagging downwards through this hole during the layup process?

Thanks guys, Chris

1. 24 or 36, but its not that critical

2. Don't worry about buying a light cloth, if you have some you could use it though, it only gives the layup a smoother surface, saving some time if you have a large area to sand and fair.

3. If you do it right away you don't need to prep the surface, but surface prep isn't difficult with epoxy (wash it off and then sand it), so do whatever is easier for you.

4. Wax paper or packing tape (the clear stuff) will work and if any of it sticks it can easily be sanded off.

 

[109jb]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I have seen holes in fiberglass boats where the hole is cut so that you can get a precuured patch in from the outside and bond it to the inside of the hull, and then after that cures you layup the outside like normal. This would allow repairing without removing the deck.

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if you have anyplace locally that repairs boats professionally that you can get what you need from them. I had been going through a distributor for my supplies, but found a boat repair shop really close to me that will sell me resin by the gallon and CSM and 1708 Biax in heavy and finer weaves if I need it. Just gotta ask. If you need a scrap, I bet they throw it to you for pennies, if not free.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Thanks a million guys for all of the advise and suggestions. I really do appreciate it, it truly is and has been helpful throughout this process. The help i have been receiving continues to give me the knowledge and the confidence that i need in order to repair my joy (my boat that is)... such that i will have confidence when out fishing my favorite flounder holes and the winds pickup.

THanks a million.

Chris

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

How many layers would one recommend of the 1708 biaxial cloth to be used to accomplish approximately 5/16" thickness? The successive layers need to be approximately 1-2" larger than each prior patch such that every layer overhangs the prior layer by 1-2", correct?

Could i make this patch on a table first instead of epoxing each layer on the boat one at a time? In other words could i make this large patch consisting of successive layers on a table and then after setup move it to area to be repaired on my boat. IF doing it in this manner should i compress the layers tightly while setting up by using some sort of weight on top of the layers to prevent air pockets within the layers or would that be a bad idea?

Thanks, Chris

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

You don't need to do it one layer at a time, with a medium or slow hardener you should be able to do all the layers at one time.

In hot weather or with a fast hardener it may create too much heat, so evaluate the conditions first.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

How many layers would one recommend of the 1708 biaxial cloth to be used to accomplish approximately 5/16" thickness? The successive layers need to be approximately 1-2" larger than each prior patch such that every layer overhangs the prior layer by 1-2", correct?

Could i make this patch on a table first instead of epoxing each layer on the boat one at a time? In other words could i make this large patch consisting of successive layers on a table and then after setup move it to area to be repaired on my boat. IF doing it in this manner should i compress the layers tightly while setting up by using some sort of weight on top of the layers to prevent air pockets within the layers or would that be a bad idea?

Thanks, Chris

Hello again Truefire..

I still stand on using VE resin.. Your West sytem Is going to drain out m8..

Yes.. you can wet out and bubble roll your " 5 layers of patch 1708 glass" with epoxy or whatever .. Its actually a good idea in some cases.

Im just telling ya..your going to drain your epoxy out of the glass no matter what.

Trust me.. Ive done small 6"x6" ( boss says WestS ) .. even put peelyply over it..and It still drains out ! .. This is with heat lamps preheat and postcure ( Which you need to do with epoxy if you have dark finish areas ).

Just use VE .. layup your repair on the table ( pre-wet out your lam area .. let start to cure ) then slap your Band-aid 1708 on there..roll out as needed..

Im tellin ya guys.. Dont Use epoxy for serious lams .. It will not work the way your thinking..

Just MO anyway...

YD.

PS. please wear proper gear.

 

[redfury]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

that's what I did on this patch using polyester resin. I wet out all 6 layers on a piece of plastic, and then brushed resin on the boat, put the patch on like a big bandaid and rolled out the patch with the plastic on top of it, and let it sit overnight with the plastic still on it. If I had worked a little harder, I could have gotten a prettier outcome, but I still had to grind it down smooth regardless. I rolled out quite a bit of extra resin to make the patch relatively lean, but still fully saturated.

 

[Truefire]

Re: Advice please! Fiberglass boat hull hole patch (pics)

Hello again Truefire..

I still stand on using VE resin.. Your West sytem Is going to drain out m8..

Yes.. you can wet out and bubble roll your " 5 layers of patch 1708 glass" with epoxy or whatever .. Its actually a good idea in some cases.

Im just telling ya..your going to drain your epoxy out of the glass no matter what.

Trust me.. Ive done small 6"x6" ( boss says WestS ) .. even put peelyply over it..and It still drains out ! .. This is with heat lamps preheat and postcure ( Which you need to do with epoxy if you have dark finish areas ).

Just use VE .. layup your repair on the table ( pre-wet out your lam area .. let start to cure ) then slap your Band-aid 1708 on there..roll out as needed..

Im tellin ya guys.. Dont Use epoxy for serious lams .. It will not work the way your thinking..

Just MO anyway...

YD.

PS. please wear proper gear.

Your West sytem Is going to drain out m8. I guess you are talking about draining my monies, not sure what is meant by m8 here?

Also i have never used any vinyl ester resins and am somewhat concerned with the shrinkage ratios, brittleness, and as to whether or not i will be able to use this type of resin on the 1708 biaxial cloth layers that i have been advised to use.

Now what do you mean exactly when you mention 'bubble rolling' my layers?

What would you advise Dr Yacht in regards to the layer material for these successive layers in which i have to make so that this hole is covered up correctly. I have been told to use 1708 biaxial cloth for this however you are advising otherwise.

What if any are the particular reasonings behind this advise and what type of material are you considering me use instead? Please bear with me, i am certainly no professional in the arena of fiberglassing and not sure what types of fiberglass matting to use with various resins and such.

I can only assume select mats or fiberglass cloths are engineered and designed to work with select epoxies, resins, etc;

Thanks!

Also, in laying these layers out on a table and bonding them together in this manner what type of release agent would be good to prevent bonding to my plywood table top? Then would i necessarily have to utilize a heat lamp to warm up the glass or???? and would these layers need any slight weight compression imposed upon them while under this bonding process?

Thanks again, Chris